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vgr's profile
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
@vgr

Tweets

Venkatesh Rao

@vgr

Conversational account. For work follow @ribbonfarm, @breaking_smart, @artofgig. Tweets are 90% vacuous views, apathetically held. Mediocritopian. IKEA builder.

Los Angeles, CA
venkateshrao.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Venkatesh Rao Retweeted Kevin Marks

      Non-basic id element “incluing”https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1331697608042147846 …

      Venkatesh Rao added,

      Kevin Marks @kevinmarks
      Replying to @vgr
      It's also a kind of reading for world context the way you read a detective story for clues - Jo Walton called it "incluing" https://www.tor.com/2010/01/18/sf-reading-protocols/ …
      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      A good diagnostic question, in the spirit of Alan Kay “waste transistors” principle of personal computing is “what is this story willing to waste?” What is it willing to feature “too many” of? Culture = clever names.

      1 reply 2 retweets 18 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      More examples: Futurama: Silly devices/gadgets/design fiction objects Simpsons: Arguably the couch gags+intro mini-story that triggers the main story, like “they go to the fair and Homer buys 1 dumbbell” South Park: “we learned something today” faux-morals

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Rick and Morty: inter-dimensional cable and quick-sketched useless parallel universes which don’t do anything for the plot, like the farting-asses universe. Best example might be the brilliant pizza-universe set. There is NO good reason for this scenehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUBmEDAoGOE …

      2 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
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    5. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Venkatesh Rao Retweeted Jonathan Korman

      What to call this principle? Spice-note?https://twitter.com/miniver/status/1331675875947937792 …

      Venkatesh Rao added,

      Jonathan Korman @miniver
      Replying to @vgr
      This is nifty and needs a name, like “spice note” or something: the fun flavor element which does a lot of the story work Star Wars: spaceship design Superheroes: costume design aSoIaF: house banners & words Agatha Christie: etiquette Wuxia: special weapons & attacks https://twitter.com/vgr/status/1331673021367480320 …
      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Venkatesh Rao Retweeted mark safranski

      Secret sauce is perhaps too broad. 🤔 This is a narrower animating thing.https://twitter.com/zenpundit/status/1331703351097090055 …

      Venkatesh Rao added,

      mark safranski @zenpundit
      Tolkien’s secret sauce which he began doing even before he conceived of Middle Earth in 1917 while recovering from the Somme https://twitter.com/vgr/status/1331673021367480320 …
      4 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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    7. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Big mood? Generator? Flywheel? Root chakra? Idiopathy? Principle needs a clear statement too: “every successful genre story has an unnecessarily overbuilt world id-element.”

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
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    8. Carlos Bueno‏ @Archivd Nov 25
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      Replying to @vgr

      I think it’s “leitmotif”. And then you have to break it down into the leit and the motif. The motif is the theme that people notice: eh pratchett’s puns and historical references. The leit is the motivating force behind them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Replying to @Archivd

      Are leitmotifs necessarily overbuilt though? To me the overbuilding is the key part. In your case I don’t think it is computer science concepts. It is wordplay (not just dad jokes). Whatever you have “too much” of for story needs in a sense.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Replying to @vgr @Archivd

      I’d argue that the leitmotif is the reinforced “important” theme not necessarily the overdone abundance signal. Related but not the same thing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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      Replying to @vgr @Archivd

      Sometimes they’re the same, but not always. In Rick and Morty I’d say the leitmotif is the nihilistic disillusionment bits scattered in every episode, but the id-element is “cheap universes”. Relationship: a multiverse where universes are really cheap induces nihilistic stories.

      1:57 PM - 25 Nov 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Carlos Bueno‏ @Archivd Nov 25
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          Replying to @vgr

          I think we are saying the same thing but arguing about what to call it. There’s the “virtue” that shines through and the “vice” that necessarily tags along with it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr Nov 25
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          Replying to @Archivd

          Main reason I don’t think they’re the same is that literary fiction usually has leitmotifs but not the abundance signals. Genre fiction is abundance-driven. Literary fiction seems to come from a place of scarcity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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