Status in an honor culture, ironically, seems to be about how much you can cheat 🤔
The gods are seen to favor you in proportion to how much cheating they let you get away with.
This is a big theme in the Mahabharata. 90% of the cheating in it is by the god-favored ‘good guys’.
Conversation
Replying to
Yeah but that’s not a cheat. It was a choice Krishna offered. I’m thinking of Arjuna killing Karna while his chariot wheel was stuck, Ashwathamma the elephant incident, Bhima hitting below the belt, Bhishma getting killed because he refused to shoot at Sikhandin...many more
2
2
Show replies
Replying to
Exodus is like this. The heroes are lying and cheating their way through their encounters with Pharaoh, etc.
Rahab the prostitute becomes a hero this way.
Interestingly, lying is not forbidden by the Ten Commandments. “Bearing false witness” (falsely accusing someone) is.
2
13
Show replies
Replying to
...I do think you make a great point and find this stuff fascinating.
I generally see it as a problem to be solved rather than a condemnation of honor itself. But Mahabharata did deeply offend my sensibilities when I was first introduced to it, so there is that. 😀
1
Replying to
Well you’re strongly deontological plus some virtue iirc. The Mahabharata is unabashedly consequentialist.
1
Show replies
Replying to
Related: people pretending towards high status focus very hard on The Rules, while high status people are so native to The Rules that they:
- Don't have to put effort in to follow
- Know how/when to break them
- Know how/when transgressions are used to preserve ingroup
1
6
Replying to
Hmm. That's an interesting extension of this idea: musingsandroughdrafts.wordpress.com/2018/11/26/hon
Being able to cheat means that you're strong?
2
Replying to
In South America this is called “viveza criolla”. Basically a kind of low cunning. No rules, except the ones you get caught on.
3






