Progressive virtue signaling though, grates in an unpleasant way. I’m not sure why. Perhaps because I expect more from them.
Ironically a virtue signal is an aliveness anti-signal to me. If you’re virtue signaling you’re not thinking and I generally expect prohressives to think.
Conversation
This may sound weird, but I don’t expect actual thinking from the rest because their value lies is faithfully reproducing old arguments, that were once progressive in their own time.
I expect high-quality reproduction. Classic greatest hits from Aristotle to Hayek.
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Virtue signaling is expected from believers in old ideas that have been distilled.
But “progressive” definitionally implies new ideas and fresh thinking. Stuff that hasn’t yet been compiled into “virtues” that can be signaled
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Most ideologies are almost by construction acting-dead ideologies (cf ). Progressive politics has historically been associated with subversive thought, good art that disturbs and challenges, etc. To virtue signal is to admit failure at the progressive acting-alive project.
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To resort to virtue signaling represents a deeper failure of progressivism than failure at politics.
It represents failure at art. Failure to consistently surprise yourself and others. Failure to put the familiar into unfamiliar perspectives.
Failure to in fact *progress*.
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Continuing from last night.
Typical progressive values — justice, compassion, sustainability — seem to be far more deeply rooted in tradeoffs and compromise relative to non-progressive ones. There is no such thing as a “purist” way to be just, compassionate, or sustainable.
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This might be why using them as fodder for virtue signaling is grating and smacks of authoritarianism.
Justice is a tradeoff between confidence in evidence vs timeliness of redressal of harms experienced
Compassion is a tradeoff between your pain and mine, present and future
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Sustainability is a tradeoff between living with the knowledge we have versus waiting to know it more deeply and completely.
You cannot actually practice any progressive value in a formulaic way. Every instance of applying it requires non-trivial thought.
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Replying to
You seem to be saying "purist" and "nontrivial thought" are opposites. But they're not. "Purist" means holding the line -- a stalwart refusal to do certain things, ever. Generative thought *can* exist within boundaries.
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Not engaging with morons, for instance, is a boundary that can make you more creative.
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Replying to
Sure if the boundaries are themselves grounded in pragmatic awareness of their limits.
How good is your moron classifier if you believe that one
How well do you understand axiom of choice, godel type foundational subtleties if you draw a hard boundary around “logical”

