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vgr's profile
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
@vgr

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Venkatesh Rao

@vgr

Conversational account. For work follow @ribbonfarm, @breaking_smart, @artofgig. Tweets are 90% vacuous views, apathetically held. Mediocritopian. IKEA builder.

Los Angeles, CA
venkateshrao.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 15 Oct 2018
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      A threshold guardian is often just a guy in the slow lane of the story appointing themselves traffic police. Like those truckers who decide to straddle merging lanes to enforce “fairness” when a full capacity zipper merge would in fact be more efficient.

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    2. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @vgr

      I would like to see an example of what is meant by a zipper merge being more efficient.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee

      See the book Traffic by Tom Vanderbilt

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @vgr

      I understand (I think) how it'd be optimal efficiency if robots are driving/coordinating, but with humans I imagine the efficiency is lost to additional disruption in flow. Bandwidth through the choke point is maximized if flow is fastest.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee @vgr

      I could probably just read the book but it's late and I'm tweeting from bed in the dark.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee

      The book references a paper. I don’t think human factor matters since it cancels out in both merge patterns, leaving net inefficiency of extra length of unoccupied lane causing backup to extend longer etc. And even if batch merges are better, blocking is still meaningless.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @vgr

      Yeah this is why I'm curious to visualize an example, not just of the zipper but also of the less efficient alternative. I'm not sure what it's up against. (Agreed blocking lanes isn't productive.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee @vgr

      My assumption is that merges could happen earlier where traffic is less dense, which minimizes the impact on flow (speed) since humans are better then there's plenty of room. With an aim of maintaining maximum speed into and through the bottleneck, which determines bandwidth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee @vgr

      Found a paper referenced on Wikipedia, not sure if the same Tom references in the book. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_(traffic) … Suggests the efficiency gain is in (1) safety and (2) congestion disrupting less roadway because the traffic jam fills more lanes. That much is intuitive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee @vgr

      But also suggests that it doesn't improve bandwidth. And kind of handwaves the bandwidth problem as unrealistic to solve because humans go slow anyway 🤷 An assumption that, I think, makes the conclusion (that zipper is more efficient) more situational than general.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 15 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @MRSallee

      Fine, ditch zipper. I’ll stand by claim that blocking harms the merge efficiency by shortening available coordination surface/line

      11:24 PM - 15 Oct 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 15 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @vgr @MRSallee

          Blocking is motivated by a fairness/cutting in line type silly instinct, there is no efficiency justification for even adding it to the solution space

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. mrgunn‏ @mrgunn 16 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @vgr @MRSallee

          Very interesting discussion. I've always assumed the traffic engineers had a reason for placing the merge point where they did & I reckon efficiency was at least part of their thought process. There are definitely driver types that prioritize either fairness or efficiency.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Mark Ryan Sallee‏ @MRSallee 16 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @vgr

          🤷‍♀️ I ride a motorcycle, it all means nothing to me.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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