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tobie's profile
Tobie Langel
Tobie Langel
Tobie Langel
@tobie

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Tobie Langel

@tobie

Open source pragmatist. Founder & Principal @ UnlockOpen. @amphtml advisory committee. @OASISopen Open project advisory council. Ex-@fbOpenSource, @w3c. he/him.

Geneva, Switzerland
unlockopen.com
Joined April 2007

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    1. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 3
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @vivainio @tobie and

      I’m a tiny shareholder of GOOG and if they stopped winning with Chrome in market and standards bodies to move chromium (or Chrome itself, including tracking for ad targeting?) into some dreamy fair play / independent open source entity, there would be a class action suit. Right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Ville M. Vainio‏ @vivainio Jul 3
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrendanEich @tobie and

      So shareholders want to keep Chrome more closed to capture GOOG value, and Google themselves may be opening it up more which shareholders don't like?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @vivainio @tobie and

      No. Google doesn't want to hand Chrome over to a new outside governance structure AFAIK. Chrome is already open source, but that means little: Google dominates both http://chromium.org  and the W3C. Shareholders are owners. Labor works for capital. Nothing is surprising here.

      1 reply 2 retweets 1 like
    4. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrendanEich @vivainio and

      If you misread my "for giving away Chrome" upthread, that was not about the past, it was about the idea Tobie advanced of a magically neutral spinout of Chrome to a non-Google governing entity. Such a spinout would cost materially in adverse ways => class action shareholder suit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Tobie Langel‏ @tobie Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrendanEich @vivainio and

      I think the crux of our disagreement (beyond the technical aspects you mention and know orders of magnitude more about than I do) is that I genuinely believe such a move would be in Google’s long term interest, whereas you see it as class-action worthy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tobie @BrendanEich and

      Both of these can be true at the same time, and a lot of what is bad about American capitalism stems from that disconnect.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 4
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      Replying to @wycats @tobie and

      Exactly! Don’t shoot the messenger, Tobie: I would only be party to a suit by proxy, i wouldn’t bring it myself. The game as rigged favors short term thinking. FWIW in old days I talked to Sergey Brin about this, and early Google even post-IPO did work to play the long game.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Tobie Langel‏ @tobie Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrendanEich @wycats and

      I’m familiar with the class-action mechanism. I wasn’t suggesting you’d be playing an active part in it. Sorry it read this way! I had never heard of a class-action against a company open sourcing code or moving a project to a foundation. Are there previous examples of that?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tobie Langel‏ @tobie Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tobie @BrendanEich and

      (And just to clarify: I’m genuinely curious to learn more about such actions if some already happened in the past; I’m not trying to score a cheap point if none have.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 4
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @tobie @wycats and

      Moving a project to a foundation sounds easy and benign — it is anything but. Mozilla separation from Netscape/AOL involved firings, layoffs, personal job risks. I don’t recall nuisance suits over it but there may have been some.

      3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
      Tobie Langel‏ @tobie Jul 5
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @BrendanEich @wycats and

      That’s a very different kind of separation: it involved moving the employees with it. That’s certainly not what I’m suggesting. Google recently moved Kubernetes to the Linux Foundation. I don’t know the specifics of the move, but it certainly wasn’t a disruption of that level.

      12:50 AM - 5 Jul 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich Jul 5
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @tobie @wycats and

          Big difference in size, economic entanglement via tracking/accounts-autologin, primary business interest, don’t you think? If you think most staff stay at Google and a few flak-catchers/evangelists/influencers at Chromzilla make a diff, I’m telling you that didn’t and won’t work.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tobie Langel‏ @tobie Jul 5
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @BrendanEich @wycats and

          I don’t know. But it’s a fascinating conversation to have. And a great way for people (myself included) to learn more about the guts of browsers and the business models behind them. I’m really thankful for your willingness to entertain it so far. :)

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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