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thomaslhorrocks's profile
Thomas Horrocks
Thomas Horrocks
Thomas Horrocks
@thomaslhorrocks

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Thomas Horrocks

@thomaslhorrocks

Jesus follower. (Com)passionate. Wordy. 'A centrist black hole.' 'Pretty cool Arminian.' 'Hippy dippy liberal pastor.' Cohost of @sinnergistspod. Opinions mine.

Bloomington, IN
thomaslhorrocks.com
Joined May 2011

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    1. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 1
      Replying to @joshmrowley

      Those are the terms of scripture itself, so I’m comfortable with them. But yes, we need to be careful how we use them. Anti-Semitic supersessionism is just awful exegesis. Non-anti-Semitic supersessionism is the foundation of the entire NT.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Josh Rowley‏ @joshmrowley Oct 1
      Replying to @thomaslhorrocks

      I believe that the term "new" in front of "covenant" was a scribal addition in later manuscripts. And your last sentence is surely hyperbole.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
      Replying to @joshmrowley

      You think “new” was a scribal addition in which passage? And no, not really hyperbole. The establishment of a new covenant that supersedes the first is what the entire New Testament is all about. It’s why we call it then”New Testament.”

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Josh Rowley‏ @joshmrowley Oct 2
      Replying to @thomaslhorrocks

      I believe "new" is a later addition to the words of institution, for example. The names Old Testament and New Testament were not chosen by the biblical writers. They were adopted long after the various books were written and collected.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
      Replying to @joshmrowley

      “New covenant” appears 16 times in the NT. You think “New” is a scribal addition in every case?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Josh Rowley‏ @joshmrowley Oct 2
      Replying to @thomaslhorrocks

      I don't know. But the fact that it sometimes was shows that there was debate about whether to call it "new" as early as the first century.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
      Replying to @joshmrowley

      I’m not sure it shows that at all. I think if anything it’s just a scribal error because of its commonality in the New Testament. Jeremiah predicted a new covenant, which the NT writers clearly saw fulfilled in Jesus.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Josh Rowley‏ @joshmrowley Oct 2
      Replying to @thomaslhorrocks

      We agree on your last point (as previously established). Our disagreement is about whether "new" means "replacement." History has shown that insisting the second replaces the first can have terrible consequences.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
      Replying to @joshmrowley

      I don't think there's any way to make coherent sense of the NT without the idea of replacement. Like I mentioned previously, the jump from a new covenant replacing the old to anti-semitism and nazi-ism is a major non-sequitur.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
      Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

      It is important to remember that Paul never tells Jews in his letters 'stop being Jews & abolish Judaism'. Rather, he is telling former pagans to stop being pagan & start acting more like Israel. No Israel, no Church.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
      Replying to @summeroflove85 @joshmrowley

      What? Of course he does. No more circumcision. No more dietary restrictions. No more ritual sacrifice. He tells BOTH Jews and Gentiles to enter into the new covenant established by Christ.

      7:41 AM - 2 Oct 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Josh Rowley‏ @joshmrowley Oct 2
          Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @summeroflove85

          Paul tells his fellow Jews not to require Gentiles to become Jews. He does not tell Jews to stop being Jews.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
          Replying to @joshmrowley @summeroflove85

          But he does they’ll them that are not bound by Torah.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
          Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

          To get a sense of Paul's meaning it's worthwhile studying Romans 3:1–31.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
          Replying to @summeroflove85 @joshmrowley

          I’m familiar with it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
          Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

          It seems to me that the text doesn't advocate a straightforward replacement of the Jewish people. Indeed, it seems here that Jews remain Jews. No expert of course. How's your NT Greek @joshmrowley? 😉

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
          Replying to @summeroflove85 @joshmrowley

          The whole point is that Jews and Gentiles must *both* become followers of the Messiah who inaugurated a new covenant. It’s not that the people cease being what they were, it’s that the *covenant* has been replaced with a new one, which is just what the Jewish prophets predicted.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
          Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

          For you, what does that mean for how Christians should relate to Jewish communities in the present?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Thomas Horrocks‏ @thomaslhorrocks Oct 2
          Replying to @summeroflove85 @joshmrowley

          The same way Paul did: encourage them to accept and give allegiance to Jesus as the Messiah.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
          Replying to @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

          There is no evidence I can see in the NT that Paul is telling Jews not to follow Torah. He affirms that Gentiles don't need to follow the Torah. He adds something distinctive to the mix however. The nations become partners with Israel. At no point does Israel cease to exist.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ben Wood  🏳️‍🌈 ☮️ 🦉‏ @summeroflove85 Oct 2
          Replying to @summeroflove85 @thomaslhorrocks @joshmrowley

          For an overview of these issues, I warmly recommend Paula Fredriksen’s Paul: The Pagans' Apostle.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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