We’re starting with some pre-testimony discussion about records being entered into the court.
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“I need to understand what the basis is for why you’re trying to admit things in the record,” judge says. Heated discussion with lawyers.
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Epic now calling Thomas Ko to the stand. They are approaching the witness to give him a binder. Really feel robbed of seeing these binders.
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Epic counsel Brent Byars now doing examination of Ko. Asking him to describe career before Epic — was a banker at Citibank, then moved to Samsung Pay and Samsung Galaxy Store management.
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Samsung had previously asked for some documents to be sealed, btw, including Samsung Galaxy Store details. Ko then helped launch Fortnite on the store and moved to Epic. “What they tried to do [were] very noble things, and I wanted to help."
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They’re talking about Epic’s payment solution, which is available on PC and Android. Makes the solution available to developers on Epic Games Store for in-app purchases, but doesn’t require them to use it.
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What was Ko’s initial assessment of the Epic payment system? “Our solutions were good in the countries of the US and Western Europe, but outside of those regions we didn’t have a lot of solutions.” Since 2019 that’s changed — from 10 to 42 local currencies.
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“I believe that we have made lots of improvements, but still there is more room to improve.” Still trying to make improvements — gives example of Epic Wallet to store money.
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Epic is planning “smart pricing solutions” that protect developers from “unpredicted volatility of foreign currencies” by warning developers about potential shifts.
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Epic uses credit card processors in US and Paypal and regional providers internationally to process transactions. Ko is discussing exactly why this is preferable. Also emphasizes Epic never gets credit card numbers from customers.
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Has the payment solution ever been available on iOS? Yes, Ko says. When? “During Project Liberty."
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“From your perspective, what was the purpose of Project Liberty? “Project Liberty is an attempt to provide developers choices for payment solutions and bring that benefit to customers in a platform where that choice is not available."
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Ko is explaining why Epic knows its payment system is reliable and safe. For context, Apple says allowing non-Apple in-app purchase providers could compromise the iPhone’s security and user experience.
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Ko says he’s in charge of selecting payment service providers. “You look at all aspects, from technical sophistication, user experiences … service level commitments.” Latter is “company guaranteeing 24/7/365 operational working conditions.” Epic considers cost, too.
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2020, payment processing averaged around 4.2% cost for Epic payments worldwide. In the US, around 3.5%. It negotiates with providers as well. (Again for context: Epic wants to show it can offer lower prices than Apple’s locked-in alternative.)
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Taking a look at an email from PayPal responding to some questions evaluating it. PayPal wants some portions of this sealed, we’re moving to another doc, but there’s some confusion about whether Epic actually submitted it to the judge. “Just keep going,” judge says.
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The doc is Epic evaluating three different payment processors for user experience and other factors.
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We’re moving to cross-examination with Apple, who starts with Ko becoming involved in Project Liberty.
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“Did you know that as part of Project Liberty, Epic would be involved in deceiving Apple in some way?” lawyer asks. “We were supplying payment solutions,” says Ko. Lawyer pushes, asks if he knew it would be “put on the Apple platform without Apple’s permission.”
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“I knew my payment solutions would be used on Project Liberty, and how the communications went on were beyond my responsibility,” says Ko. Lawyer asks one more time. “I wasn’t aware of it,” Ko says.
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Lawyer notes in 2019 Ko said Apple and Google had excellent (lawyer claims the “only”) full-service solutions for payment processing. Ko concurs.
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Lawyer points to a message where Ko wrote that there was “really no truly comprehensive payment solution that does everything needed for a game company.” This was around the time Ko was working on Epic’s payment solution.
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“I think there were other companies that were able to process games payments at the time.” But Apple and Google had such dominance that they had more comprehensive solutions, Ko says.
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“Very few games” on the Epic Games Store offer in-app payments, including through Epic, lawyer says. “Very few companies actually took you up on that option."
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Now lawyer is asking about whether Ko handles data privacy, and whether Epic performs this service. Ko says it’s managed by infosec in a different division of Epic. Lawyer asks: “Part of your duty does not include the safeguarding of customer privacy?” “That’s correct."
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“Has Epic ever had issues with improperly collecting or using customer personal information in the past?” / “I don’t believe so,” Ko says. And have they ever had issues with collecting or improperly using info from children under 13? “I don’t recall."
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The courtroom is being sealed to talk about this issue — so unfortunately we’re not going to get an answer, it looks like. It shouldn’t take too long, judge says.
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hello 30-second synthpop loop, my old enemy, we meet again
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oh my god no, it matches almost perfectlyhttps://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/1390335329756925957 …
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Press line just came back, mid-argument between the judge and Epic’s lawyers.
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Wydaje się, że ładowanie zajmuje dużo czasu.
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