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thatcks's profile
Chris Siebenmann
Chris Siebenmann
Chris Siebenmann
@thatcks

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Chris Siebenmann

@thatcks

That cks. Overcommitted sysadmin, photographer, bicyclist, and other multitudes. I write a lot of words for a programmer.

Toronto
utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blo…
Joined December 2011

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    Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

    It's marvelous how systemd-timesyncd.service fails to start on one of our Ubuntu 18.04 machines with the log message 'Failed to create state directory: Permission denied' and there is no way to diagnose this at all (not even a message about WHAT DAMN DIRECTORY).

    1:32 PM - 7 Aug 2018
    • 10 Retweets
    • 36 Likes
    • Ryan Philippe ALEXANDRE cpj1 John Burwell Kiss, György 𝚛𝚒𝚌𝚔 𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚝 Guillaume Ceccarelli Abbas Yazdanpanah Robert Sander
    5 replies 10 retweets 36 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

        After chasing many things, timesyncd appears to be failing to start because systemd itself has forgotten or misplaced the 'systemd-timesync' private? user and group, so /var/lib/private/systemd/timesync is (re)created in a broken state.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

        Indeed, 'getent passwd|group systemd-timesync' works on all Ubuntu 18.04 machines except the one problem one, even though the system still knows what UID and GID to give the directory. So: left hand not talking to right hand, and it's undebuggable.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

        Thanks, systemd, for returning us to the era where the best answer to system problems for almost everyone is 'hell, I don't know, reboot the system and hope it goes away'. Can't reboot the system? Tough luck, you're up the creek.

        4 replies 8 retweets 15 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

        It appears most likely that systemd half-forgot its own DynamicUser(s) when a systemd package update happened and systemd re-exec'd itself. The internals of dynamic users are undocumented, of course, so who knows.

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7

        I was wrong about the systemd timesyncd problem, it's not DynamicUser. It's more mysterious and screwed up than that and I have no answers, just more frustrations and a blog rant (and a bunch of strace output because why not, whatever).

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        Show this thread
      7. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        The systemd timesync problem appears to be because there are lingering dead xrdp-chansrv FUSE mounts in /proc/mounts, which causes systemd to give up when it's trying to create a new namespace and never switch timesyncd to it, so /var/lib/private access fails.

        2 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        Systemd does not of course log any sort of failure message when it gives up on setting up the DynamicUser private namespace; it just goes ahead and silently runs the service in the regular filesystem, even though it knows that is guaranteed to fail.

        3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        Attempting to manually unmount the nominal FUSE filesystem mounts as root gets the great error: # umount /some/nfs/fs/thinclient_drives umount: /some/nfs/fs/thinclient_drives: block devices are not permitted on filesystem.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        Show this thread
      10. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        Attempting to unmount the FUSE filesystems as the user fails, ultimately with the error 'Operation not permitted' (if one writes a program to just directly call umount(), since umount will try to stat things and fail with various charming errors due to that).

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      11. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        One can eventually umount these xrdp-chansrv FUSE mounts, *if* one temporarily chmod 755's the directory path to them so the NFS client machine's UID 0 has access to them; otherwise, no. This is not a robust solution and systemd's handling of this is broken.

        3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        Show this thread
      12. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        The overall end result here is that using DynamicUser is dangerously unreliable on at least the Ubuntu 18.04 version of systemd and perhaps all current versions. Systemd can have spurious setup failures that are not logged and do not abort things.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        Show this thread
      13. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 8

        The simple reproduction of our Ubuntu 18.04 timesyncd failure to restart problem is an active sshfs or smbfs FUSE mount in a NFS-mounted home directory that is mode 700 (or generally not world-accessible). So that's it for timesyncd for us on 18.04. Thanks, systemd.

        0 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        Show this thread
      14. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Twirrim‏ @Twirrim Aug 7
        Replying to @thatcks

        Hmm.. any reason to be using systemd-timesyncd instead of Chrony? Chrony became the recommended time sync daemon by Canonical with the release of Bionic/18.04

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7
        Replying to @Twirrim

        This seems odd. Our setup at least has timesyncd installed & active by default and no chrony package, and the Ubuntu server guide claims timesyncd is the default: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/NTP.html.en …

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Twirrim‏ @Twirrim Aug 7
        Replying to @thatcks

        Hmm... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes#Chrony …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Chris Siebenmann‏ @thatcks Aug 7
        Replying to @Twirrim

        I think that's for machines intended to be time servers. This is just a time client.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Twirrim‏ @Twirrim Aug 7
        Replying to @thatcks

        This is for clients too. The images that Canonical ship to cloud providers use Chrony instead of systemd-timesyncd (for 16.04, they're favouring systemd-timesyncd), for which I'm glad. timesyncd seems seriously limited.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. Guillaume Ceccarelli‏ @GCsVentures Aug 7
        Replying to @thatcks

        Guillaume Ceccarelli Retweeted Chris Siebenmann

        This thread illustrates yet another example why I’m not running systemd. Still. Btw, I’ll take this opportunity to thank you, @thatcks for your technical blog. To anyone into ops or sysadmin: you should check it out if you haven’t. https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/ …https://twitter.com/thatcks/status/1026929126123479040 …

        Guillaume Ceccarelli added,

        Chris Siebenmann @thatcks
        It's marvelous how systemd-timesyncd.service fails to start on one of our Ubuntu 18.04 machines with the log message 'Failed to create state directory: Permission denied' and there is no way to diagnose this at all (not even a message about WHAT DAMN DIRECTORY).
        Show this thread
        0 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Mircea Ulinic  🇪🇺‏ @mirceaulinic Aug 9
        Replying to @thatcks

        @systemdsucks

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. 1 more reply

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