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tehjh's profile
Jann Horn
Jann Horn
Jann Horn
@tehjh

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Jann Horn

@tehjh

works at Google Project Zero. personal account.

Joined August 2011

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    1. Daniel Gruss‏ @lavados 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @solardiz

      yes, but at the same time you would limit processes to a comparably small address space. I fear we already got too used to the vast space of 48bit virtual addresses.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @lavados

      Sure. Is x32 as currently implemented in the Linux kernel safe from Meltdown or are minor changes needed (propose them on LKML if so)?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Jann Horn‏ @tehjh 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @solardiz @lavados

      x32 isn't architecturally different from x64-64 AFAIK? just a different syscall convention?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Daniel Gruss‏ @lavados 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @tehjh @solardiz

      and differences in what you can do with segments. and if you're not using a long mode segment you can't use long mode operations -> you can't have pointers that point anywhere above 2^32.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jann Horn‏ @tehjh 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @lavados @solardiz

      but the point of x32 is that you do have 64-bit mode, so that you can use R8-R15 and other features of 64-bit mode. x32 uses 32-bit pointers in its calling convention, but it's not architecturally compatibility mode

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @tehjh @lavados

      Sure. I really do mean x32 here. With Meltdown, it just became more attractive: I guess just restrict modify_ldt() from x32 personality processes and we've defeated Meltdown for them, without KPTI. And those can co-exist with slower x86_64 processes with KPTI for full 64-bitness.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Jann Horn‏ @tehjh 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @solardiz @lavados

      how would that work? x32 is architecturally still x86_64, and AFAIK the CPU will silently ignore any segment limits you try to set on e.g. CS or DS in that mode

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    8. Daniel Gruss‏ @lavados 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @tehjh @solardiz

      you would have to go for compatibility mode

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Jann Horn‏ @tehjh 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @lavados @solardiz

      and use a second GDT, or something like that, because on normal Linux, any 32-bit process can just IRET to 64-bit mode - there is a 64-bit user code segment in the GDT, and ring 3 can switch to any ring 3 code segment

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @tehjh @lavados

      Good point. Reminds me of my use of ring 2 for running userspace code with exec stack on Linux 2.0, so that ring 3 code wouldn't easily switch to there. But I'm not exactly happy about introducing this hack for 64-bit mode userspace code just so that 32-bit can't switch to there.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jann Horn‏ @tehjh 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @solardiz @lavados

      btw: Xen PV has something similar - if a 32-bit PV guest could switch to 64-bit mode, there'd be security issues, so they switch the GDT on context switch between VMs

      7:36 AM - 7 Jan 2018
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      • Jon Masters 🏴‍☠️
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        1. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 7 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @tehjh @lavados

          Would an OS kernel do better by keeping 64-bit descriptors in LDT instead? IIRC, at the time of my Linux 2.0 hack, FreeBSD kept user code/data descriptors in LDT, and I was envious. Perhaps lower overhead than switching the GDT and less of a hack than running user code in ring 2.

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