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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 19 Apr 2018
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      Has anyone seen spectre/meltdown used by an attacker in the wild yet? Also curious about rowhammer.

      15 replies 17 retweets 52 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 22 Apr 2018
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      How come as a community we are willing to hype an attack to no end but never feel a responsibility to emprirically evaluate whether the hype was real?

      5 replies 3 retweets 16 likes
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    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT

      What evaluation do you suggest? It's a useful primitive, but investing in developing it into a full attack when defenders are trying to mitigate it obviously reduces its value.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @taviso

      I have the example of negatively sampling attempts with instrumentation as part of the patch. That won’t measure successful attempts but could approximate volume. I’ll be the first to say it’s not perfect and I don’t have a perfect suggestion

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT

      We don't measure severity by number of compromises anymore, and competent attackers aren't just blindly running autopwn. If for some reason you just want a guesstimate for how many kiddies there are, then that's much easier but doesn't seem useful.

      1 reply 5 retweets 17 likes
    6. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @taviso

      If you think measuring widespread attacks is not valuable I dunno what to tell you

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT

      I said "we don't measure severity by number of compromises", how do you get to "measuring widespread attacks is not valuable" from that?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @taviso

      You said measures kiddies wasn’t useful.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Apr 2018
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT

      I meant isn't useful in this context - how many kiddies there are doesn't have any relationship to how bad things would have been if we didn't invest the effort into cleaning up rowhammer, but the instrumentation only measures how many kiddies there are.

      1:04 PM - 22 Apr 2018
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      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 22 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT

          Give me a guesstimate how much it would cost to turn speckhammer into a profitable professional azure compromise - $1M? You need staff, dev, ops, etc and it's risky. But once you patched it, seems really hard to recoup that. Instrumentation only measures opportunistic attempts.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 22 Apr 2018
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          Replying to @taviso

          agree measurement has tons of limitations and also agree with costs. So let’s not measure anything?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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