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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @alexstamos @HASilverglate

      I asked if you had an example scenario, you can make it as egregious as you like to make your point. To me, it seems like evaluating publicly available products is just common sense before taking a long or short position.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Hongyi Hu‏ @hongyihu 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos @HASilverglate

      I also worry if this might lead to perverse incentives for responsible disclosure if dropping public vulns without working with the vendor to address and patch first proves to be consistently profitable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @hongyihu @taviso @HASilverglate

      The only saving grace is that it looks like nobody has ever made money short-selling on vuln research.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @alexstamos @hongyihu @HASilverglate

      That's not the only saving grace, although it makes thing simpler haha. I think it could work. Reading muddy waters reports, they don't sound too different to hyped advisories applied to a different industry, e.g.http://www.muddywatersresearch.com/research/co/mw-is-short-groupe-casino/ …

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos and

      Still, you're obviously correct that once you step outside the bounds of objective facts that extreme care and thoughtful expert input is required to avoid legal trouble.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @hongyihu @HASilverglate

      Do you believe the AMD advisory website is completely within the bounds of objective fact? Would you feel comfortable defending the process used to get to those conclusions in a windowless room with an AUSA, an FBI Agent taking notes, and an SEC investigator?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @alexstamos @hongyihu @HASilverglate

      No, the AMD website is farcical, and I think you could make a good argument for bad faith. I'm not defending that particular actor, I'm just talking about the abstract idea of using security research.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @hongyihu @HASilverglate

      Right, and my original prediction is that this trend of vuln research being supported by short selling is going to end badly. It sounds like you might not disagree.

      3 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    9. You and 52 others‏ @bahstgwamt 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @alexstamos @matthew_d_green and

      Insider trading laws might or might not apply. Are vulnerabilities in publicly available software or hardware "nonpublic"? In theory anyone could have found them, just as anyone could read an annual report. But then someone did find them, and kept it secret.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @bahstgwamt @kragen and

      No, I asked an expert. The important part is the "insider" part, it must be directly or indirectly from an officer of the company. You're allowed to research something, not publish your results, and trade based on your conclusions.

      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @kragen and

      The stock market is not supposed to be a game of chance, you're allowed to do research.

      11:16 AM - 14 Mar 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 2 Likes
      • James Lethbridge You and 52 others Itinerant Engineer
      0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes

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