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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @ConradLongmore and

      Tavis Ormandy Retweeted Tavis Ormandy

      Are you going to make me repeat this analogy?https://twitter.com/taviso/status/965635354874146825 …

      Tavis Ormandy added,

      Tavis OrmandyVerified account @taviso
      Replying to @martijn_grooten
      Imagine a bank that doesn't check ID's, but they have a list of every person ever convicted of fraud and will check if the person claiming to be you is on this list. This will catch real attacks, agreed? By your logic, this system works. Is your money safe in this bank?
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @ConradLongmore and

      That analogy expresses a theoretical concern with AV, that implies we may a better Internet where we don't need to rely on digital elastic bands and like cello-tape like AV. I'm mostly with you on that. But that's not the Internet we have.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @ConradLongmore and

      It is most definitely the internet we have, we can make this work. It doesn't even mean your industry would die, you could just make all the people working on populating blacklists populate whitelists instead. It won't be an easy transition for you though.

      2 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    4. stacksmasher‏ @stacksmasher 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten and

      Agreed. I remember when RSA got compromised a few years ago they where running bit9 so the attackers compromised them to get to the target.... now THAT is dedication!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @stacksmasher @martijn_grooten and

      That's a good thing, if you have to pull off an impressive attack that Martjin would say is "outside of our threat model", then wonderful! The alternative is just mail a new exe and get a shell, which AV vendors would say "well, nobody's perfect!".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @stacksmasher and

      Hey, there's a difference between "outside your threat model" and "not featuring prominently in your threat model". For most (not all!) users "opening attachments in spam" features more prominently than "nation state leveraging AV vulnerabilities".

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    7. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso and

      And again, I like a whitelisting based approach. I've recommended iPhones to people who are high value targets for that reason (though I have an Android phone myself). I'm totally fine with more orgs discovering this approach to security.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso and

      AV is an imperfect solution in an imperfect world, but for almost all users, it provides a net benefit.

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @stacksmasher and

      Stop calling AV imperfect, this is like saying CRC16 is an imperfect cryptographic hash. AV does not provide a net benefit, we've already explained to you the serious problems we face shipping secure software because of Antivirus.

      2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
    10. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @stacksmasher and

      I said almost all users. We need tell high value targets (journalists, activists etc.) to lock down their devices to the point that AV doesn't provide any benefits (and should be removed). I've been saying that for years.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @stacksmasher and

      In exchange for a trivially bypassable blacklist, it introduces serious vulnerabilities that the industry refuses to take responsibility for. "Well nobody's perfect!", "Those problems are out of our threat model!", I've heard it before and explained why that doesn't cut it.

      8:17 AM - 20 Feb 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • Daniel Smith
      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @stacksmasher and

          OK, I just told my parents to remove AV from their PC, because of all the reasons you cited (which, again, are very valid concerns that we're not taking seriously enough). What should they do instead?

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @martijn_grooten @stacksmasher and

          How about your buy your parents a Chromebook Martjin, or Windows 10 S? That's an easy solution, probably cheaper than your Kaspersky subscription and actually good security.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 9 more replies

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