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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Conrad Longmore  🇪🇺‏ @ConradLongmore 19 Feb 2018
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      Also a defence-in-depth strategy is required for any larger organisation. Monitoring network traffic to the internet, patch management, web screening etc. You'll never get to 100% but additional layers can soon create a pretty secure environment.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @ConradLongmore @justinschuh and

      That sounds like something pulled directly from a security vendor marketing material, you just need to say "layered approach" a bit more. Do you wrap your servers in asbestos for extra defense?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @ConradLongmore and

      Every new piece of software inspecting untrusted traffic adds complexity and attack surface. If you run 50 security products on your endpoints you're not 50 times more secure - you just multiplied your attack surface by 50 for arguable benefit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @ConradLongmore and

      How wonderful would it be if you could just buy more security products and be more secure? Do you really think that's how it works? Did you learn about security from reading banners at RSA? 🙄

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @ConradLongmore and

      Hey, I'm totally fine with people saying that security vendors make outrageous claims, that their products aren't as good as we think they are. That they also increase the threat surface and that they need to sandbox their stuff and what not.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso and

      But saying that they don't make a difference, that is simply not true for most people. And it's actually harmful advice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @ConradLongmore and

      Tavis Ormandy Retweeted Tavis Ormandy

      Are you going to make me repeat this analogy?https://twitter.com/taviso/status/965635354874146825 …

      Tavis Ormandy added,

      Tavis OrmandyVerified account @taviso
      Replying to @martijn_grooten
      Imagine a bank that doesn't check ID's, but they have a list of every person ever convicted of fraud and will check if the person claiming to be you is on this list. This will catch real attacks, agreed? By your logic, this system works. Is your money safe in this bank?
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @ConradLongmore and

      That analogy expresses a theoretical concern with AV, that implies we may a better Internet where we don't need to rely on digital elastic bands and like cello-tape like AV. I'm mostly with you on that. But that's not the Internet we have.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @ConradLongmore and

      It is most definitely the internet we have, we can make this work. It doesn't even mean your industry would die, you could just make all the people working on populating blacklists populate whitelists instead. It won't be an easy transition for you though.

      2 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    10. stacksmasher‏ @stacksmasher 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten and

      Agreed. I remember when RSA got compromised a few years ago they where running bit9 so the attackers compromised them to get to the target.... now THAT is dedication!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 20 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @stacksmasher @martijn_grooten and

      That's a good thing, if you have to pull off an impressive attack that Martjin would say is "outside of our threat model", then wonderful! The alternative is just mail a new exe and get a shell, which AV vendors would say "well, nobody's perfect!".

      7:59 AM - 20 Feb 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @stacksmasher and

          Hey, there's a difference between "outside your threat model" and "not featuring prominently in your threat model". For most (not all!) users "opening attachments in spam" features more prominently than "nation state leveraging AV vulnerabilities".

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        3. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 20 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso and

          And again, I like a whitelisting based approach. I've recommended iPhones to people who are high value targets for that reason (though I have an Android phone myself). I'm totally fine with more orgs discovering this approach to security.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 15 more replies

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