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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Justin Schuh  😷‏ @justinschuh 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @justinschuh @martijn_grooten @taviso

      Finally, we have to look at the abysmal quality of the average AV—and not just the security vulnerabilities—the performance and stability are also among the worst I've ever seen. And this is stuff running in your kernel, and getting injected into every process in your system!

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    2. Justin Schuh  😷‏ @justinschuh 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @justinschuh @martijn_grooten @taviso

      We regularly deal with AV that: breaks ASLR/NX, leaks highly privileged interfaces into sandboxed processes, regresses TLS connections to the point of uselessness, makes outbound connections impossible, prevents renderer process launches entirely, and causes all manner of chaos.

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    3. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @justinschuh @taviso

      Hey, I know. I'm not saying this part isn't true. It frustrates me too. :-( And I really want to build bridges between the AV vendor community and people like you guys. And I'd be happy to hear of suggestions on how to do that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Justin Schuh  😷‏ @justinschuh 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso

      Here's my model for a healthy AV: The AV provides a scanning engine that runs in a tightly sandboxed, isolated container. The OS initiates the scans of data from any entrypoint sources. That leaves the OS responsible for system integrity, and the AV identifies malicious data.

      2 replies 6 retweets 26 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @justinschuh @martijn_grooten

      Is there *anything* more perfectly sandboxable than an antivirus engine? The fact that this isn't happening speaks volumes.

      6 replies 8 retweets 39 likes
    6. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @justinschuh

      Yes, incentives. I sometimes wish a company would see its profits drop every time you reported a vulnerability That would change things a lot.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso @justinschuh

      I wish there were a Pwn2own for anti-virus software. That's a great artificial incentive.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    8. API ERROR‏ @SwiftOnSecurity 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten @taviso @justinschuh

      I agree. I have good experience with corporate antivirus ever since moving to a smaller, lighter player, but I’d love to see people getting incentives to hack it

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. API ERROR‏ @SwiftOnSecurity 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity @martijn_grooten and

      Let me tell you, as someone who implemented a new corporate antivirus and actively monitors its efficacy: Antivirus largely works in the dirty real world if you know how to use it. Antivirus that isn’t administered correctly, which is a huge number, is routinely worthless.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    10. API ERROR‏ @SwiftOnSecurity 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity @martijn_grooten and

      I spoke to a senior consultant at a massive security firm, a large number of customer issues where they open panicked P1 infection issues, are administrators disabling important cloud lookup features.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity @martijn_grooten @justinschuh

      Look, everyday you get thousands of hits w/antivirus, should you feel safer? One argument is "yes, those are attacks failed, we made things safer". Another argument is "no, av is only thing standing between us and disaster, it's trivial to evade, so we're on borrowed time".

      11:06 AM - 19 Feb 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 9 Likes
      • Mason Jars Real AI Brendan Hide 🇿🇦 🇨🇦 Yannayl Dr Code 414 Altytwo Altryness, ⬡ BS Secondary Lobby Muppet stacksmasher Kaushal Banninthaya ~CodySmith
      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. stacksmasher‏ @stacksmasher 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @SwiftOnSecurity and

          If it gets to your AV you have already lost. Anyone can circumvent AV, its very simple. Most malware authors don't bother because they don't have to.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @stacksmasher @taviso and

          Not everyone can circumvent AV at scale. That's what matters to most malware authors.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 6 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @SwiftOnSecurity and

          That is not the discussion here though, the argument here is that while catching those trivial attacks they also make more dangerous attacks possible and refuse to take responsibility for them. If they solve that, nobody would care.

          2 replies 2 retweets 12 likes
        3. API ERROR‏ @SwiftOnSecurity 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten @justinschuh

          Interesting point

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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