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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
      • Report Tweet
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      Martijn Grooten Retweeted Jake Williams

      I've been making this point for some time, but you would be right to think I might be biased. Jake isn't.https://twitter.com/MalwareJake/status/964919935699857410 …

      Martijn Grooten added,

      Jake Williams @MalwareJake
      Replying to @jpgoldberg @imaguid
      I think so. I challenge you to name one 3rd party AV that has done more harm than good for users with average threat models (users with esoteric threat models aren't the subject of this discussion)
      2 replies 1 retweet 20 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @martijn_grooten

      Hah, malware people love to compare antivirus to seatbelts, stabvests, bank vaults. "You wouldn't tell a bank to keep money in a mattress b/c vaults can collapse!!!". No, but I'd tell them that not bothering to check ID because they have a blacklist of fraudsters is a bad idea.

      1 reply 2 retweets 29 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten

      Here is the problem, if antivirus *just* didn't work, nobody would care. The problem is it doesn't work *and* makes people with targeted attackers unsafe. If you fixed that second problem, fair enough. But is there *any* vendor in your industry who will implement sandboxing?

      9:05 AM - 19 Feb 2018
      • 3 Retweets
      • 31 Likes
      • T. Melvin Bardimardy 😈 ZABEXHD Andrew Miller Julia Wolf (\/) ( ͡°,,,°) (\/) Elissa Shift Samuel Groß
      6 replies 3 retweets 31 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso

          Where's your "it doesn't work" based on? AV is especially good at protecting people from their own mistakes (open certain email attachments etc), which is the kind of threat security people tend to ignore. It doesn't stop every single attack, no matter what marketing may say.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @martijn_grooten

          Imagine a bank that doesn't check ID's, but they have a list of every person ever convicted of fraud and will check if the person claiming to be you is on this list. This will catch real attacks, agreed? By your logic, this system works. Is your money safe in this bank?

          1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
        4. 3 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten

          Please explain to me why *browser* vendors take security more seriously than your industry, then I'll listen to your "stab vest" analogies. 🙄

          1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
        3. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso

          I'm on the record saying the AV industry needs to take attacks against (or leveraging) AV more seriously, but I think things there are some differences with browsers:

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. 23 more replies
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        2. hanno‏ @hanno 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @martijn_grooten

          I think I disagree here. That it doesn't work is a problem, because it makes people believe it's ok to build systems where you can click on things and run code, because we have antivirus. It needs to be highlighted that the whole approach is wrong & we need something better.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        3. Martijn Grooten‏ @martijn_grooten 19 Feb 2018
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          Replying to @hanno @taviso

          I wonder what kind of alternative system you have in mind. Most malware exploits features, not bugs. It does things we want (e.g. encrypt files, do CPU-heavy computations, upload data to the cloud) in a way we don't want. Not sure what kind of system can prevent that.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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