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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      key compromise in the absence of universal codesigning transparency has a silent failure mode. deterministic builds can help alleviate that.

      1 reply 2 retweets 7 likes
    2. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      the reason i want this is also personal: If I was paid to pwn, gathering the worlds code signing keys would be a rather high item on my todo.

      3 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

      That doesn't make sense though, the only way you can know is because you also built it - at which point you don't need the signed binaries! The code signing is only useful if you want to know the binaries were produced by a vendor you already trust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      explain to me again how having built the binaries surfaces the use of compromised keys for the binaries on the repo?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

      It doesn't matter - you *have* trusted binaries, you were going to build them anyway. Codesigning is only relevant for people who don't have trusted binaries, but do have a vendor they trust, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      I am not sure you are engaging with my argument. To repeat: I like deterministic builds because they may surface use of compromised signing keys. I don't think you get to decide that I should not care because I can build my own (trusted) binaries.

      1 reply 1 retweet 14 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

      We agree that you can check if a build server is compromised or not with reproducible builds. I'm not saying you can't enjoy doing that if you like, but I am saying there's no security benefit over just open source.

      4 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      You can say that if you like, but you have just defined “possibility to surface signing key abuse” as “no security benefit over open source”. I will concede this if I get copies of all debian package signing keys & passphrases in return.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

      No, I am saying there is no security benefit to *reproducible builds* over open source. There is benefit to avoiding compromised code signing keys, but you *can already* do that with open source. Therefore, "reproducible builds have no security benefit over open source".

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      How is compromised code signing key abuse mitigated currently?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

      You don't need a code signature if you built it from source. You already know the binary came from the source code you have to trust anyway?

      2:29 PM - 25 May 2020
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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          Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

          OK, in which fantasy world (your wording used so far against me, so I'll allow myself the usage of this term, although I find the tone inappropriate) can a user do the chromium build on their Allwinner CPU smart phone?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @halvarflake and

          You're confused. Halvar already wants to build the package, and is obviously capable of running dpkg-buildpackage. The difference is I'm saying he should install his .deb, he's saying he wants the vendor to invest in reproducible builds so he can checksums.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 3 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 25
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          Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

          So your argument is: Distribution of precompiled binaries is the issue; source code distribution and decentralized build solves it? I will not argue against that It is *a* solution. Now...

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @halvarflake @dEnergy_dTime and

          Yes, I suppose. I think a lot of people are enamored with it because they think it protects against malicious vendors, but that's not true. It *could* protect against compromised build infra, but we have better solutions already!

          0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        4. End of conversation

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