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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      I'm not.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      OK, so let's say foo.exe is not open source, but the build is internally reproducible. The vendor hires someone you have to trust already (Say Microsoft, who makes your OS), to reproduce the build and they sign a statement saying they did. Happy?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      I don't call that reproducible. And no, not happy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      Why is it not reproducible?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      The definition I work from requires it to be public (even if not licensed under an open source license) so that in principle anyone can reproduce it. Not just an escrow party who's incentivized not to disclose problems or risk no longer being accepted by vendor.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      The point is, why can't you use the binary that you built? That would mean reproducible builds are worthless. Fine, building software is hard and you wanted someone else to reproduce it for you, but then why can't just the vendor and the auditor have the code?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

      I think the answer is "I admit that the reproducibility wasn't really important, and that I just believe in open source." 😝

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Panagiotis Moustafellos‏ @pmoust May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

      Reproducibility is important. Source code A leading to binary B through a reproducible build guarantees what you see (source) is what you get (the binary from the vendor). What is not clear here?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @pmoust @RichFelker and

      The only way to verify that untrusted binary B is from trusted source code A is that it matches trusted binary C. If C is trusted, why can't you just use that? What is not clear about that?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @pmoust and

      repeating myself for eternity: because the party you trust is not necessarily the one with the authority to push binaries to an app repository

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @pmoust and

      Give. specific. examples. Your claim is this is a realistic threat model we need to defend against, right? Which system is this that everyone needs reproducible builds for, where they *can* verify binaries, *cant* push them and do have source code.

      1:15 PM - 25 May 2020
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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