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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      It *does* work with them. You can easily grab binaries from Play Store to compare to your own build.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      Yes, after you've installed them and then used adb, at which point why can't you use your own binaries?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      No, before you install. Ever heard of third party Play Store clients?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

      But if there weren't a workflow to do this it wouldn't mean repro builds are useless. It would be a flaw in the store's app delivery model that needs fixing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      I see, so the threat model that means everyone should be using repro builds is: An android user that is willing to violate the terms of usage, can build their own application, but can't sideload so they can use the build they trust, for some reason? Correct?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

      no, a security expert that gets the source code of an application to verify his organization should, in fact, use e.g. that e2e crypto messenger, does a build, build matches what's on app store, expert says "is OK", admins/users deploy/install now officially trusted software.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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      Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @taviso and

      honestly, I'm a bit confused why you still think the end user would need to build the software. If you know what the binary should look like, you can delegate trust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @RichFelker and

      Someone you trust needs to build the software. I'm saying, why not get the binaries from them - that system works today, it's how Linux distributions work.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      Trusting X to be competent and not to be conspiring with Y is not the same as trusting X to provide you binaries.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

      For example this is absolutely the case with X=Google. I trust Google security folks' analysis of third parties' software. I don't trust that binaries from Google don't contain buried functionality contrary to my interests and safety.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      Stop conflating "open source" and "reproducible builds", it's infuriating!

      12:31 PM - 25 May 2020
      • 1 Retweet
      • 2 Likes
      • Yanai Moyal ゆっくりヤンキーと言うグレェ「grey」、どうぞよろしくお願いします。
      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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          Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

          I'm not.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

          OK, so let's say foo.exe is not open source, but the build is internally reproducible. The vendor hires someone you have to trust already (Say Microsoft, who makes your OS), to reproduce the build and they sign a statement saying they did. Happy?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 9 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          I'm not conflating reproducible builds with open source. What I'm saying is if I am able to reproduce the exact same thing as someone else ships in binary, only then I can make a statement based on my code observations about the binary they ship. Since I don't think that's hard,

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 25
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          Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @taviso and

          I've really reached the point where I think you insist on willfully ignoring that. I don't know how to convince you other than with logic, so I'll guess I'll stop trying.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 31 more replies

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