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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      Not just code quality but, when the product is derived from FOSS and you don't have reason to believe the vendor has ability to upstream bugdoors into the FOSS, significant benefits to the practicality of audit for bugdoors and unintentional added vulns.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      Sure, and I want a pony. Nobody is going to buy me one though, so why discuss it? 😛

      6 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
    3. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

      honestly, this is all a large log of whataboutisms. Sure, there's bugdoors. Ssource code are still easier to audit for bugs than binaries. If you don't have reproducible builds, you are left with the binary alone. So, I see a benefit. Complete solution? Nothing ever is.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @RichFelker and

      Obviously you can have source code without reproducible builds, what a ridiculous thing to say?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      In practice you *don't* have source code without repro builds. You have approximate source code that differs from the actual source the binary was built from in various ways for various reasons.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      Do you have source code to the Linux kernel?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      Which Linux kernel? I have the source to the one I built. I'm not sure if I have it for the one my Alpine laptop is running (don't know what exact compiler they used). Pretty sure I would have it if running Debian.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      You said "you *don't* have source code without repro builds", then you said "I have the source to the one I built". Which one of those is true?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

      You don't have source code to a binary someone else built without repro builds. You do have it for something you built, at least until you clobber the build environment with hidden deps.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

      Cool, so in practice you *can* have source code without reproducible builds? Then why do you need them to be bit-for-bit identical? I think you're struggling to justify a threat model that doesn't make sense. 🤷🏻‍♂️

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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      Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

      Please think it through, someone you trust is giving you a binary and source code, but it's not reproducible. You're saying "I dOn'T hAvE tHe sOuRcE cOdE", I'm saying "They *gave* you the code, and you *wanted* to build it anyway? Why is the reproducibility important?"

      11:40 AM - 25 May 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 25
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          Replying to @taviso @dEnergy_dTime and

          I have thought this through and have already answered all these questions. It doesn't seem productive to keep repeating them.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @RichFelker @dEnergy_dTime and

          You haven't answered the most important question. You have to build the code anyway, so why can't you just use the code *you* built? I'm asking because that's exactly what I do, and I want to know what the security threat to me is.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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