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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @rene_mobile and

      There might be non-security benefits of reproducible builds to *vendors*, but I don't see any benefit to users of being able to reproduce them. This is just because promising there's no backdoors make no sense when bugdoors are just so perfect?

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @rene_mobile and

      Fwiw I see benefits in reproducible builds to answer the question "is the binary on my machine built from this source"?

      3 replies 0 retweets 33 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @halvarflake @rene_mobile and

      Yes, but that only makes sense if you trust the person who provided the source code (because if you don't trust them, there could be a bugdoor). So another way to verify that would be codesigning, or hosting the binary on a https server, right?

      4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @rene_mobile and

      It also helps ensuring that I can rebuild without having to trust someone else's build infra integrity. Reproducible builds + codesigning (incl. transparency) should limit backdooring to bugdoors or global compiler backdoors?

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @halvarflake @rene_mobile and

      Right, but because you have to trust the vendor anyway, they don't need to make the source/seeds public. For example, they could hire an auditor to verify and you can trust them that they're telling the truth, and you get the same benefit?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @rene_mobile and

      I feel like I have missed a few hours of discussion. How does hiring an auditor equal not having to trust their build infra is not compromised?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 23
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      (perhaps I misunderstand the current state of the discussion?)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @halvarflake @rene_mobile and

      You have to trust the vendor, so if they say "we hired a third party to reproduce our build, and they confirmed our build server produced identical output", then you get the same benefit without having to publish the source and build seeds, right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      If you think they might lie, then you can't trust them, and reproducible builds don't have any benefit (because of bugdoors).

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Rene Mayrhofer‏ @rene_mobile May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      I think I now know the difference in our mental threat model. Do you assume vendors to be fully capable of securing their build infrastructure if they also write trustworthy code? I.e. either the lie about their code (and are capable of writing good bugdoors), or they are honest.

      2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @rene_mobile @halvarflake and

      No, of course not. I don't think Debian, Adobe, Microsoft, etc are untrustworthy, but they have had compromised build infrastructure.

      2:43 PM - 23 May 2020
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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