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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation
      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      If you think they might lie, then you can't trust them, and reproducible builds don't have any benefit (because of bugdoors).

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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      • Report NetzDG Violation
      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Reproducable builds are a supply-chain control, not a quality control. They don't fix the garbage in, garbage out problem. But verifying that the garbage I'm receiving is in fact exactly the garbage the vendor produced still has value.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @syncsrc @halvarflake and

      If you read the tweet above, I explained why that isn't the case. If you have a counterargument, you have to make it 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Getting an attestation from a 3rd party is the opposite of trusting the vendor though. And how does a trusted 3rd party make that attestation if not via reproducible builds?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @syncsrc @halvarflake and

      You *have* to trust the vendor, there's no way around that. The point is, if you trust them, then why would you think they're lying when they say an auditor verified their build infrastructure wasn't compromised?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Vendors are not uniform spheres. I can assign different levels of trust to different things they do. Reproducible builds solve real problems I (and others) have observed with vendor development practices. There's a pretty good explanation here: https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Security/blob/master/SecureFirmwareDevelopmentBestPractices.md …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @syncsrc @halvarflake and

      For example, you might trust a vendor to not provide you malicious software, but not trust they're not maliciously lying about how they produced that software? Can you see why I think that's a weak argument?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @syncsrc @halvarflake and

      I think you're saying they might not be *lying*, they genuinely thought they had hired someone to check the integrity of their build server? I agree that is in the realm of things that could theoretically happen, but you agree it's a weak justification?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      (Obviously?) I don't. If there's something in the whitepaper that isn't clear please file an issue.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @syncsrc @halvarflake and

      It's clear to me, and I'm telling you it's a weak argument. If there's something that isn't clear in this thread, please file a reply 😛 I think your threat model is confused, your decision about what you can trust and what you can't is arbitrary.

      2:19 PM - 23 May 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @syncsrc and

          Like, you have to trust a vendor that the source code was created by their engineers in good faith. You accept that, but then say you can't trust them to tell you if they've verified their build server is compromised or not. That's just arbitrary?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Matt King‏ @syncsrc May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

          We clearly have different experiences with vendor build practices.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 1 more reply

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