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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      I have no idea what that means. You verify the build matches, so you don't have to trust me that my build server was safe... so what, you still have to trust there are no bugdoors. That's the whole discussion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      "Build server" is a distraction. Repro builds are a process to ensure recipient has a way to build from source. If source is minor diff on top of existing FOSS vendor has no access to backdoor, only diff needs audit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      This is a really odd point. We both agree there are huge benefits to open source, right? But you're saying the binaries also also have to be reproducible, because maybe they're hiding some proprietary code in there? Um, can't you just verify there is no additional functionality?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      I think we both know there's no such thing as "just verify there is no additional functionality" for a black box.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

      Without repro builds, in practice even when vendors release source there are often no scripts to rebuild it. This isn't malice just a matter of it being hard to do right. Repro builds is a discipline to get it right. (GPL anticipated this problem back in the 80s, BTW.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

      If a router vendor ships their source that's a modified OpenWRT, but doesn't do repro build processes, do you think it's likely that the source actually matches the firmware blob you download from their site? :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      Right, but you're saying "they might be breaking the law, and if they provide a reproducible build, we can check if they're breaking the law and sue them....." so, if they are breaking the law, why would they do that?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      No. I'm saying that you can check that there's not new vendor-induced bug surface outside the patch set and limit the scope of what needs audit to the patch set.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      I deleted my last tweet, I think I misunderstood. I think you're saying there are code quality benefits to making your build reproducible, and you want developers to be better. OK, but you're mixing in security claims, I only really object to claims it prevents backdoors.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      Not just code quality but, when the product is derived from FOSS and you don't have reason to believe the vendor has ability to upstream bugdoors into the FOSS, significant benefits to the practicality of audit for bugdoors and unintentional added vulns.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @RichFelker @matthew_d_green and

      Sure, and I want a pony. Nobody is going to buy me one though, so why discuss it? 😛

      1:49 PM - 23 May 2020
      • 13 Likes
      • Scott Arciszewski Natanael, tech janitor Travis Normandy Thread Cy Bear Loafing CarrickDB M James Smith
      6 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Marcus Müller‏ @dEnergy_dTime May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          honestly, this is all a large log of whataboutisms. Sure, there's bugdoors. Ssource code are still easier to audit for bugs than binaries. If you don't have reproducible builds, you are left with the binary alone. So, I see a benefit. Complete solution? Nothing ever is.

          1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @dEnergy_dTime @RichFelker and

          Obviously you can have source code without reproducible builds, what a ridiculous thing to say?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 18 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          Having not read the rest of the thread, I *am* tempted to buy you a pony, just to force you into discussing something that you don't want to discuss (I haven't even read what it is ;)

          2 replies 3 retweets 41 likes
        3. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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          Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

          I’m in for $100.

          2 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
        4. 5 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Barry Dorrans‏Verified account @blowdart May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          Haven’t you won one yet?pic.twitter.com/KeQZ7kg4id

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 25
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          Replying to @blowdart @RichFelker and

          Two, but who's counting 😛

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          pic.twitter.com/G26jjUrgsY

          1 reply 0 retweets 12 likes
        3. Kyle Rankin‏ @kylerankin May 23
          • Report Tweet
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          Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

          It goes without saying but @taviso be careful allowing gift horses inside your walls.

          0 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          Where is the gofundme?

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. Andrew Zonenberg‏ @azonenberg May 24
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          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          @VerminSupreme maybe you can help? :P

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. JP‏ @froztbyte May 24
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          Replying to @azonenberg @taviso and

          There's a gofundme that can take a couple more RTs...

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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