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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      I suspect you and @natashenka are wizards with decompilers, and so perhaps working with them does not add the 50x overhead it would add to me. But does it add any overhead? If so, repro builds should eliminate that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

      50x -> 5000x realistically :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      I don't follow, having the source available would eliminate that - but what difference does it make if it's reproducible? To be clear, I believe having the source available - whether the vendor is trusted or not - is beneficial to security.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      If there is, say, a N-factor overhead to working with decompiled binaries rather than source, and projects ship with efficiently reproducible source code — then P0 finds N times as many bugs in the same amount of time, for any project that has open source. That seems good.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      OK, but let's separate out these components. There are two parts, There's the source code which we both agree has benefits. Then there's things like seeds for -frandom-seed. What is the benefit to Project Zero of the second?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Not to have to look at binaries unless you suspect a compiler flaw?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      The only possible reason for that would be we suspect the vendor is embedding a backdoor, right? But that would be an insane thing to do, when as we've already established, bugdoors are far superior?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      I still want to know why P0 looks at binaries :)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jon 'close the damn door' Sawyer‏ @jcase May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

      because it is the only responsible way to do a code audit. It is what actually runs, that precompilation source code never runs on your system.

      2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @jcase @taviso and

      I’m not asking if there can be bugs that appear only in binaries (and which would also be available with reproducible builds.) Of course that’s possible. I’m asking if that’s explicitly why @natashenka was looking at binaries.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @jcase and

      I don't want to speak for anyone else, but sometimes it's just the best option. For example, do you want to learn a codebase and figure out all the template logic and operator overloading, or just find it in IDA and see if there's an integer overflow check? 😛

      11:09 AM - 23 May 2020
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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