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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      But you agree the reproducible build isn't a factor? Doesn't that mean I've convinced you? 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Did @natashenka find the bugs in source or binary?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      AFAIK, decompiled binary, but we definitely agree source availability is useful. The discussion is about reproducible builds.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      I suspect you and @natashenka are wizards with decompilers, and so perhaps working with them does not add the 50x overhead it would add to me. But does it add any overhead? If so, repro builds should eliminate that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

      50x -> 5000x realistically :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      I don't follow, having the source available would eliminate that - but what difference does it make if it's reproducible? To be clear, I believe having the source available - whether the vendor is trusted or not - is beneficial to security.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      If there is, say, a N-factor overhead to working with decompiled binaries rather than source, and projects ship with efficiently reproducible source code — then P0 finds N times as many bugs in the same amount of time, for any project that has open source. That seems good.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      OK, but let's separate out these components. There are two parts, There's the source code which we both agree has benefits. Then there's things like seeds for -frandom-seed. What is the benefit to Project Zero of the second?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and

      The discussion is about those seeds, that's what makes it a "reproducible build" and not "open source"... right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Dependencies matter a lot here I would say.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      You'll have to explain. I always want source code, it makes my life much easier. I have never wanted build seeds, but I'm asking why I should want them?

      11:02 AM - 23 May 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

          You’re looking at source and assuming you know exactly which dependency versions were used to make the binary? Seems more risky and significant than build seeds.

          1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
        3. JP‏ @froztbyte May 23
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          Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

          There's a significant chunk of industry that can't even get _reliable_ mobile builds because of exactly this issue - deps shifting underfoot, lack of dep caching or post-run workspace manifests/bundle Even having a deps manifest in SCM is not enough - transients, fetchfails, etc

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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