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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      In order for them to check the build, they’d have to engineer reproducible builds anyway. So the costs have already been incurred. Might as well make them available to your auditors at no additional cost, so they can eliminate another trust point.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @taviso and

      I also think you’re considering a model where there’s a binary choice between absolute trust and no consequences for serious bugs, and zero trust. There’s a spectrum.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      It would be nice if that was true, but every month the major vendors publish dozens of backdoor-equivalent vulns. Doesn't that prove there are no penalties for bugdoors? Worse, there might be social penalties or threats to you for discussing a bugdoor you discovered 😂

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      If you imagine deliberate bugdoors created by nation states, you also have to consider that good bugs can be discovered and exploited in both directions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      Not really, you already mentioned Dual-EC. As I understand it, they argue they generated them randomly and it was a genuine spec-bug. You argue is was a bugdoor, but it can only be exploited in one direction, right? The same is true for other bug classes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Like what? I’m curious what kinds of non-cryptographic bugs are NOBUS like Dual EC.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      Umm, stack buffer overflow parsing https://vendor/latestversion.txt? Nobody else can exploit that, right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      I’m confused now. I thought you were arguing that there were vulns that could only be exploited by one side, a la Dual EC.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      Yes, you understand correctly. Who else can exploit the example I gave other than the vendor?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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      Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

      Ah. But that’s a capability that degrades rapidly. And if every latest version is riddled with new bugs, eventually you’ll ring people’s alarms.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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      Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

      So if the second Tuesday of every month, Microsoft published dozens of new bugs, people might stop using Windows?

      10:14 AM - 23 May 2020
      • 1 Retweet
      • 8 Likes
      • JP Ahmed Kage Alex Z 🔥💻🔥 Dana Al-Abdulla François Lesueur ✊ #OnEstLaTech Dylan cucrisis
      1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
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        2. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green May 23
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          Replying to @taviso @halvarflake and

          I did.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso May 23
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          Replying to @matthew_d_green @halvarflake and

          😛 OK, but I'm guessing you still use an OS that has regular security updates of bugdoor-equivalent vulnerabilities? So the point remains, right? There would be no penalty for getting caught shipping a bugdoor.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 21 more replies

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