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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt

      Nobody argues "every man for himself" lol! We argue for autonomy and empowering users. You're not a doctor, but I assume you want autonomy in choosing your treatment options, right? Why let your vendor choose what's best, and why trust them to have your best interests at heart?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @taviso

      At the moment, I'm "Sheltering in place" at the request of doctors as a harm reduction strategy for the broader population, even though what's best for me might be just wearing a mask and gloves and getting on with life. So, I think autonomy has its practical limits.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt @taviso

      I think you may also be overestimating the benefits of informed autonomy in a lot of cases where "informed" assumes technical skill or knowledge that people just don't have.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt

      If I understand correctly, you're saying you don't need to be informed why we're sheltering in place, you just trust that it's in your best interests?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @taviso

      No but on that point, if we knew the exact odds of being infected in any random encounter and each individual were in charge of making risk calculations and just going about their business, would we all be better off?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt

      Then I don't follow, your argument. My point is that it's a doctors job to explain the treatment options to you, not to just do whatever they think is best. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @taviso

      I'm saying that your analogy is trying to frame CVD as a discussion between a doctor and a patient, when the closer analogy is between an Epidemiologist and a large, vulnerable population.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt @taviso

      It just happens that we have a real life example of epidemiologists and a large, vulnerable population to point to right now - and what people are doing is mostly accepting "There's a big risk here, wash your hands and stay inside" as the totality of what they need to know.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt

      This is nonsense, all of the information, statistics, models, even the genetic sequence is all available to the public. What is happening now is full disclosure mode. The CVD model would be "don't say a word until a vaccine is ready, a few people may die".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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      Replying to @taviso

      Not exactly that, but that's because all analogies are ultimately flawed. Covid-19 will spread regardless of who knows about it. Many software vulnerabilities won't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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      Replying to @0xMatt

      Cool, so if nobody knows about the vulnerability, then why fix it? If someone reported it, then clearly people are capable of finding it and exploiting it.

      2:45 PM - 1 Apr 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt Apr 1
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          Replying to @taviso

          You know I don't believe that. But there's a difference between theory and practice - and in practice I've seen many bugs get discovered, reported, and fixed, without others discovering them and mis-using them. Then the info is released.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Apr 1
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          Replying to @0xMatt

          You don't know that at all, and that's the problem. How could you possibly know if an attacker is exploiting a vulnerability? If you had a way to prove that a vulnerability is only known to you, then great - disclosure is not necessary, why even report it to the vendor?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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