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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 24
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      Replying to @kkotowicz @johnwilander @mikispag

      Hmm, It seems like the claim "solves cross-site request forgeries" is dangerously misleading. I get what you were trying to say John, but nobody can safely remove XSRF mitigations, so why even mention it..? It will just cause confusion, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 24
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      Replying to @taviso @kkotowicz @mikispag

      As mentioned in a sub thread, I've changed that bullet point to say "Disables cross-site request forgery attacks against websites through third-party requests."

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 24
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      Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz @mikispag

      OK, XSRF mitigations are always still required though, because any sub-resource request can be changed so that it performs a top-level navigation, and it would still be exploitable, right? So I guess my question is, don't you think it might be confusing to readers?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 24
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      Replying to @taviso @kkotowicz @mikispag

      I don't think so. This is how https://web.dev/samesite-cookies-explained/ … formulates it:

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 24
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      Replying to @johnwilander @taviso and

      "While the SameSite attribute is widely supported, it has unfortunately not been widely adopted by developers. The open default of sending cookies everywhere means all use cases work but leaves the user vulnerable to CSRF and unintentional information leakage."

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 24
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      Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz @mikispag

      And you're saying that site is correct, there are cases where this makes a CSRF unexploitable? You might be right, but for my own education, do you have an example? My intuition is that you can always just add a navigation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 24
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      Replying to @taviso @kkotowicz @mikispag

      We've made clear that we mean the third-party case in the blog post. And frankly, shouldn't we celebrate what was achieved today? I mean in terms of safety and privacy on the web. It's a huge step forward.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 24
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      Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz @mikispag

      Ahh.. you're not saying they're not exploitable anymore, you're saying that if a CSRF requires a navigation, then it's not a CSRF??? OK, well, I wasn't expecting that answer. I'm just trying to understand if it is safer, my intuition says it's a no-op.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 24
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      Replying to @taviso @kkotowicz @mikispag

      If it's a no-op, you or a coworker should change this document: https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/5088147346030592 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 24
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      Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz @mikispag

      Sure, that does seems like it could use some clarification too!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 25
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      Replying to @taviso @johnwilander and

      I asked Mike about that document, they're saying that they can make form POSTs unauthenticated, that will make some CSRFs unexploitable, so that document does seem accurate. With Safari, the attack just requires modification, and it will always still be exploitable... right?

      7:03 AM - 25 Mar 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. John Wilander‏ @johnwilander Mar 25
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          Replying to @taviso @kkotowicz @mikispag

          The default will protect against navigational requests?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 25
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          Replying to @johnwilander @kkotowicz @mikispag

          Yes, my understanding is SameSite=Lax will make top-level form POSTs to a third party unauthenticated, which does seem like it will have some modest security benefit.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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