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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Lea Kissner‏ @LeaKissner Mar 4
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      Replying to @taviso @dinodaizovi

      OK, help -- why do you think mobile voting is securable? Do you believe this in a theoretical future world where platform security is better, or in the current world (and if so, how?)? Because, honestly, it doesn't look very securable to me in this world.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 4
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      Replying to @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      I don't think securable is a fair bar, it should be the current level of security. I think people say "sure, everything is bad, but this will be bad... at scale", and I don't find that convincing enough to ignore the benefits. 🤷🏻‍♂️

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Lea Kissner‏ @LeaKissner Mar 4
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      Replying to @taviso @dinodaizovi

      Hmm. Why? AIUI there's enough diversity in setup that it's not super-easy to hit things remotely at scale. Mobile voting, especially given how many people are on old, insecure versions of Android, seems way easier.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 4
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      Replying to @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      What's the specific attack you're thinking of (e.g. malicious app in the store, chrome exploit, etc)? I 100% believe attacks at a similar scale to attacks on ballot boxes is possible.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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      Replying to @taviso @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      "Hi I'm John Smith from the Bernie Sanders campaign. If you'd like to support Bernie, please install this app that helps you find your polling place on Super Tuesday!" Imagine this on a robocall.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 4
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      Replying to @bdowney @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      Also works without the mobile component no? "E.g. Please send your mail in ballot to this address", seems not as bad, because we can take down the bad app.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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      Replying to @taviso @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      The mail in ballots come with addresses on them -- so you literally just drop them in any mailbox. Successful attacks there would be more like 'mailing out counterfeit ballots'. But that requires a locus of physical presence which is risky.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 4
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      Replying to @bdowney @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      That's just your opinion, and I don't agree. You're saying robocalling someone to install malware is trivial but robocalling someone to say the address needs to be amended is tricky. I don't think those are significantly different in levels of social engineering 🤷🏻‍♂️

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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      Replying to @taviso @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      They're definitely not different in terms of social engineering. But one of them is a lot easier to defuse since the ballot tells you the deadline all over it. And the 'install an app' threat is just the first of many. Think of all those SMS vulnerabilities over the years!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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      Replying to @bdowney @taviso and

      The most vulnerable people are running unpatched, old devices -- and in the case of many cheapo third party android vendors, seemingly security updates never arrive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Mar 4
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      Replying to @bdowney @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

      Right, but the discussion is, is the scale that mobile voting can be disrupted greater than the scale that paper ballots can be disrupted? I think the scale is similar. There are vulnerable people that can be disrupted from the polling station too, paper is not infallible.

      2:40 PM - 4 Mar 2020
      • 1 Like
      • Mobile Voting Project
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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          Replying to @taviso @LeaKissner @dinodaizovi

          It's not, but if you look at the effect of actual tampering with the process of voting, it does not seem to be happening at scale. Most of the ploys fail. The issues with polling places are a result of institutional racism or lack of support for civic engagement.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Brandon Downey‏ @bdowney Mar 4
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          Replying to @bdowney @taviso and

          I can't even begin to imagine what forces would go to work to stop/confuse people into voting if you said anybody could do it from a complex piece of hardware operated in the home with no oversight. Having a fight to reform voting laws just seems like a better use of effort.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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