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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @uncl3dumby @detective_6 and

      These are the kinds of real conversations I'm interested in. I offered a first best shot at the Offensive Security Tool definition, and I've since modified it with feedback. The idea is there's no patch that nullifies the utility of the OST. This distinction is key.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

      Sorry, but it's just no different from trying to differentiate lockpicks and tools from lock vulnerabilities at the Great Exhibition. You can debate it if you want, but I'm not interested!

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    3. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @uncl3dumby and

      Thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry you feel that way. That said I respect your departure from the conversation. That said, I don't think your work will be impacted in any way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

      I don't think anybody's will 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    5. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @uncl3dumby and

      Multiple people have already decided to not publish to the open internet, and so that's all victories in the path to a better model. Thanks again for the quick thread. If you take nothing else away, OSTs are not dependent on a software bug, which is your focus.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

      I think security tools will survive, as they have after every previous debate. Maybe I don't understand security tools (?) and this is the one, so good luck with that.

      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
    7. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @uncl3dumby and

      As I mentioned, I appreciate your feedback. OSTs are not dependent on a bug. Some percentage of people will always do whatever they want to do. This is security; there's no absolutes, and there's no finish line. Only winning, losing, and lost. Thanks again for the dialogue.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. sk1773lz‏ @sk1773lz 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

      I should start leaving shivs all over every city I visit and see what happens when my lawyers cite infosec Twitter. I'm sure I'll go fine. (Narrator: it won't.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @sk1773lz @QW5kcmV3 and

      What is the shiv in your scenario? I think you can leave copies of nmap all over town and nobody would care. You might get cited for littering, but that's it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @sk1773lz and

      nmap isn't an OST.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

      Pretty sure you're not in charge of what qualifies as a tool, and a reasonable person would agree it's useful as a security tool in an offensive context.

      4:53 PM - 26 Dec 2019
      • 1 Retweet
      • 12 Likes
      • larreh ypcrts John M Ford Dodge This Security Justin Aaron Grattafiori deweyj hotelzululima -my TASER range is 15 ft- BOFH guild ‘
      3 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Andrew Thompson‏ @anthomsec 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @sk1773lz and

          Nuance is what enables categorization which is why people are scared of definition. People have been "but what about PSEXEC" since the onset of the conversation, but the conversation is a lot more mature than that at this stage. I didn't think you still wanted to engage though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @anthomsec @QW5kcmV3 and

          I think that conversation predates psexec.... By about a century 🤣

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. 26 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. dumby 🦆‏ @uncl3dumby 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @QW5kcmV3 and

          Definitions matter. OST is Offensife Security. So what is the established industry standard for offensive security tooling?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @uncl3dumby @QW5kcmV3 and

          Consensus matters, and you don't have it.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 2 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. dumby 🦆‏ @uncl3dumby 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @QW5kcmV3 and

          If Andrew isn’t credentialed to define OST, then I’ll assume the people that discussed this originally 20 years ago already have a perfect solution for this so I’ll await that definition.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. ‘‏ @1njection 26 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @uncl3dumby @taviso and

          I’ve always called them post exploitation tools 🤷‍♂️ https://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-08/Smith_Ames/BH_US_08_Smith_Ames_Meta-Post_Exploitation.pdf …

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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