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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      Got it, is it fair to say your rationale for believing that is mostly based on anecdotes?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      Not exactly; read about market efficiency and trends and you see this pattern. That said I’ve observed this as well. Markets are dynamic, up close they look one way, when you zoom out you see the larger pattern.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      In your opinion, should consultants announce they're no longer accepting business from their biggest clients? That way the price they can charge will increase, if your theory is correct, right?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      No, I’m suggesting that if they offer a specialized capability that is not well met by the market their sudden availability represents a new market opportunity for someone. My thesis here is zero days have intrinsic value and as long as that’s the case there will be a buyer.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      There will always be a buyer of course, the question is about the price. You claim less buyers mean the price goes up, I think it will go down. It matters because if the price drops so low you can't afford to produce them, logically less will be produced.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      Lets try it this way; do we agree ther are only so many 0 days for a given target at any one time?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      Do we agree that once the 0 day is in play it’s value goes down as it’s more likely to have been patched?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      Does it stand to reason that the first buyer may pay a premium for that efficacy and likely gets some period lock in for that premium?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      Does it seem reasonable that sellers like to build long term relationships with customers?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      If the prime customer leaves do we believe sellers will try to replace that role with another prime customer?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      There are only so many 0day for a target at a time, sure. You can incentivize the creation of new ones by offering more money, but creating an exploit is expensive, so the amount has to exceed that cost, or why would I bother?

      3:02 PM - 15 Dec 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

          That create scarcity; markets like scarcity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman 15 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

          And yet vulns remain practical, so valuable. And when value and scarcity meet, prices rise.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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