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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      No, I claim that the market would get more efficient and while prices may temporarily lower, the number of buyers would increase through that efficiency we would ultimately return to highs comparable or even higher than today.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      What comparable market demonstrates that behavior? I'm not an economics expert, maybe you have a good basis for that claim.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      As a consultant when my larger clients faded away for one way or another I hunted for new clients. I found clients and in many cases they wanted to do business with me because of the work I had done for their competitors sometimes paying premiums above what was paid before.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      My time was an asset they did not have access to before and they wanted to lock it up. This is not unique and carries enough parallels to this use case to be a relevant example.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      I see, so your claim is that when a big buyer drops out of a market, other buyers will start paying more because there's less competition. Well, I think we definitely disagree on this, your anecdote could be a fluke or shrewd negotiating, no?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      No, I am saying other players will use that big players departure as an opportunity to collect more Pokémon and than over time the market will get better at connecting buyers and sellers which will return prices to market highs and even exceeding them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      Got it, is it fair to say your rationale for believing that is mostly based on anecdotes?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      Not exactly; read about market efficiency and trends and you see this pattern. That said I’ve observed this as well. Markets are dynamic, up close they look one way, when you zoom out you see the larger pattern.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      In your opinion, should consultants announce they're no longer accepting business from their biggest clients? That way the price they can charge will increase, if your theory is correct, right?

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      No, I’m suggesting that if they offer a specialized capability that is not well met by the market their sudden availability represents a new market opportunity for someone. My thesis here is zero days have intrinsic value and as long as that’s the case there will be a buyer.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d and

      There will always be a buyer of course, the question is about the price. You claim less buyers mean the price goes up, I think it will go down. It matters because if the price drops so low you can't afford to produce them, logically less will be produced.

      2:47 PM - 15 Dec 2019
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

          Lets try it this way; do we agree ther are only so many 0 days for a given target at any one time?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 15 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

          Do we agree that once the 0 day is in play it’s value goes down as it’s more likely to have been patched?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 16 more replies
        1. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman 15 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @rmhrisk and

          In small markets the exit of a particular buyer often causes other quieter participants to change their engagement level. This can dampen price swings. If you have further questions on that concept as it applies to specialist markets, you want an economist.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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