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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

      I agree that an attacker that could get a beachhead inside a hardware/os provider and sneak in a vuln into source control that isnt caught via code review and other means could create a back door that would get signed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

      I also agree that if there was no downgrade protection in the platform that would be a persistent attack vector for the attacker. I believe that’s the argument you are making of so we are on the same page here.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @carrickdb and

      I was thinking of the San Bernardino case, physical access to device, need to defeat FDE. I think it's a good argument that infra to handle escrow is difficult and error prone... but it's a good counter that similar infra already exists, so not a *huge* increase in attack surface

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

      Disagree. It’s massive difference in attack surface.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @carrickdb and

      Yep, I guess we do disagree on this. I don't see a significant difference in attack surface to build and package signing infra, which already regularly gets popped and that's good enough to defeat FDE today. Where do you see the difference?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

      Show me Apple, Google or Microsoft signing infra getting popped regularly and maybe I’ll believe you that it a regular occurrence in related systems. Even then layering the changes to accommodate frequency of access and associated authentication problems is massively different.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @carrickdb and

      I don't follow, Microsoft build infra was just recently popped?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

      I’m not familiar with the details of that incident so I can’t comment but your word was “frequently” not “once”.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @carrickdb and

      It's happened at Adobe multiple times, as well as Debian and Red Hat. It only happened at DigiNotar once, but you use that example, no? 😛

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

      Adobe isn’t a os or hardware platform and Authenticode is shit (saying that as the ex PM for it) the os and boot loader code signing processes are not p12s stored in source control.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @carrickdb and

      I agree, but it's good enough to defeat FDE today, right?

      5:45 PM - 14 Dec 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @carrickdb and

          No hardware or OS vendor in a major system I would be irresponsible enough to use the processes used by companies like Adobe to protect Authenticode code signing keys.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @rmhrisk @taviso and

          If we say if these OS and hardware vendors reduced their practices to what is used by Adobe for their Authenticode keys which would be insane it would still be worse because of the authentication and signing pipeline needed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 16 more replies

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