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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d @matthew_d_green

      I think that is a fair summation of my position; one is at scale and largely impossible to defend against (legaly compelling) especially on a global scale and the other is natural law and impossible to prevent.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @rmhrisk @saleemrash1d @matthew_d_green

      I understand, but the counter argument would be there's no way for a government to hoard 0day without putting innocent people at risk (because you can't prevent other people discovering bugs and abusing them). This is why I don't like governments using 0day.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Saleem Rashid‏ @saleemrash1d 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @rmhrisk @matthew_d_green

      if you can't sell your vulnerabilities to governments, aren't there fewer people looking for them now? so the bugs still aren't getting fixed.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @saleemrash1d @taviso and

      there's also an argument to be made that for each time anyone uses an 0day, the risk of 0day being caught ITW increases.

      1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
    5. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @qwertyoruiopz @saleemrash1d and

      (so governments making use of 0day might even be a net security positive vs 0days staying dormant until criminals make use of them)

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @qwertyoruiopz @saleemrash1d and

      I dunno, it's a pretty weak argument, the victim can detect it and then use it to attack other people. That has really happened, e.g. Shadow Brokers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    7. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @saleemrash1d and

      are entities capable of detecting use of such 0day really unable to procure 0day on their own anyway?

      3 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
    8. thaddeus e. grugq‏ @thegrugq 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @qwertyoruiopz @taviso and

      There was an office 0day a few years ago. It was first detected in Pakistan, and then about a month later it was detected in India. The Pakistanis had caught it, and then repackaged with their own payload and sent back. It was only discovered after a third party got popped

      1 reply 3 retweets 10 likes
    9. qwertyoruiop‏ @qwertyoruiopz 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @thegrugq @taviso and

      what's the rate at which this happens, and what's the rate at which exploits are found ITW by security companies that then kill them? I'd speculate that latter is a lot more likely.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. thaddeus e. grugq‏ @thegrugq 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @qwertyoruiopz @taviso and

      I have no idea of the real numbers for either. I was offering it up as an amusing anecdote. I don’t think it is really relevant anyway. How does key escrow enable stuxnet? If it can’t, then how does key escrow replace 0day as tools for nation states?

      2 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @thegrugq @qwertyoruiopz and

      You order Microsoft to put a signed update on WSUS?

      12:24 PM - 14 Dec 2019
      • 3 Likes
      • marek l. Sherif Mansour James Burns
      4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Ryan Hurst‏Verified account @rmhrisk 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @thegrugq and

          In this scenario there is a increased risk of being caught vs a built in backdoor; it also requires being to compel not only signing but construction of the hacked binary which atleast in the US has been determined to be illegal. Beyond that it doesn’t scale to needed volumes.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @rmhrisk @thegrugq and

          A similar attack worked when the feds used it for hushmail, no? Not sure I agree it's illegal, because it's really happened in the past.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Natanael, tech janitor‏ @Natanael_L 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @thegrugq and

          This is basically what FBI tried to force Apple to do.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Fourteen macaws in a trenchcoat‏ @0xMatt 14 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @thegrugq and

          Do you even need exploits if you can just decrypt a sysadmin's login session for your target (on the wire) or put your backdoor on their device at a border stop?

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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