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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      There has been some movement on the perpetual hashing front, as FB recently published new algorithms based upon more modern techniques that should be a bit more robust. The biggest problem is adversarial reporting to trigger image censorship.https://www.google.com/amp/s/about.fb.com/news/2019/08/open-source-photo-video-matching/amp/ …

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      You already have the image at that point, so no additional sharing has happened. Using your solution, I can send you a picture that isn't a nude, and someone looks at it and sees that it's not a nude. Using this system, you wait for a match and then see it's not a nude. Right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      Except you have now blocked that image in every private chat on the platform during the content moderation latency. There is effectively an infinite space of perceptual hashes that will probabilistically match a single photo; how do you think this holds up against 8ch*n

      1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      That doesn't make any sense. They can already submit infinite photos to your human team, do you block them as soon as the images arrive at nudes@fb.com, or do you wait for a moderator to confirm them first? If it's the second, then this is a nonsense excuse.

      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos

      Think about it Alex. If you have to block before moderation, then I can send any image I want, right? It seems like either you don't really care about that latency, or you're already vulnerable to that attack anyway - either way, my system means don't have to share nudes, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      FB isn’t going to block until an image has been confirmed. I expect that those images will be used to train classifiers to make proactive detection more likely next time.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos @taviso

      I think it would be great if most of this could be pushed client side. I’m actually putting together a whole workshop on client-side abuse detection after RWC.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos @taviso

      I’m not interested in going around and around with somebody with no desire to tackle the problem. Google is the absolute largest purveyor of NCII on the planet. If you really care about this issue, then ask why client-side hashes can’t be used to censor Google Image Search.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos @taviso

      It will turn out to be a really thorny nest of issues, which you would understand if you spent any time in this area. Project Zero can’t build trustworthy software just with bug finding, and you can’t reply-guy your way into mitigating really difficult society-wise issues.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      Hah, you're being disingenuous. You're saying "why won't the media just trust me that people need to send me their nudes", and you can't even explain to me why it's necessary.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos

      If you're not being disingenuous, and you genuinely believed the censorship and latency excuses, then I'm already helping you by explaining the problem, no?

      9:16 AM - 18 Nov 2019
      • 1 Like
      • brambles
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Aram Harrow‏ @quantum_aram 18 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @alexstamos

          I haven't worked on this problem, so certainly don't appreciate the thorny issues, but I do find this thread informative.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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