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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Sure, It's possible the ISP was doing SSL MITM. I care about that, I don't want your mums email being inspected without permission. I guess if you don't care, then resolving this problem was an unwelcome chore, but just allow malicious ISPs shouldn't be the default right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      Yes, right, let's pick the most unlikely reason… the reason, which I bothered to analyse, is that the ISP is small, does not peer at major peering points, is on a local IXP and is, fundamentally, only suitable for local traffic. DoH and the hundreds of DNS requests make it slow.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      I was just repeating the reason you gave. Sure, disabling DoH might be the answer in some situations, but you agree we shouldn't *default* to plaintext protcols like http/telnet/dns, because in rare cases it's acceptable, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      No, you are putting a data transfer protocol, a remote access protocol and a name resolution protocol in the same category. DoH is not securing DNS, it is sending all requests to the same location which, for privacy, is lethal.

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Right, I listed a bunch of plaintext protocols together that have encrypted counterparts, telnet => ssh, http => https, dns => doh. Not sure what is wrong with that. It seems like a really ridiculous claim that DoH is worse for privacy than DNS, but interested to hear why.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      In the EU with the GDPR it would be most unwise to log all DNS requests from customers without reason and without consent. Once the request is then made by the ISP's DNS it is then one amongst a multitude providing privacy. DoH providers are US-based. Bad start…

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Tavis Ormandy Retweeted Matthew Prince  🌥

      Three things, I'm European and I use encrypted protocols. DoH is just a protocol, you can use it with both nodes in Europe if that makes you happy. Thirdly, see this tweet, major providers already do comply with GPDR and Privacy Shield, so non-issue 😛https://twitter.com/eastdakota/status/1181620950653181952 …

      Tavis Ormandy added,

      Matthew Prince  🌥Verified account @eastdakota
      Replying to @floorter @taviso and 4 others
      That’s correct. We have presence in London (EU for a bit longer) and Lisbon and comply with Privacy Shield and GDPR. Counter intuitively, we have *much* stronger protections against US gov’t requests as a US-based global company. But understand that’s not the general perception.
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      Tavis, please, don't treat me like an idiot… "encrypted protocol" because the issue with DNS is that they sniff the link between you and the ISP so you exchange it for giving a single party all your DNS traffic in a nice identifiable way? Encryption to surrender privacy…

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and

      So you are telling me that DNS running to my local router aggregating all the users in my house (and caching answers keeping them "in house", then off to the ISP which again caches and aggregates is worse than a direct link to a unique DNS?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and

      Not to mention the interesting issue if suddenly they go bust / have a major BGP failure or some nation decides to drop peering with them. Single point of failure.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Your ISP is a SPOF, what if they go bust or have a major BGP failure? DoH doesn't change the status quo here.

      6:07 PM - 31 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @bagder and

          ISPs go bust and you get a new line… do you go and change the config for all the Firefox installs? I've seen fewer BGP failures than technical collapses at cloud providers to be honest and I've been speaking BGP for 30 yrs now… Look, peace, we disagree, that's it.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

          Wait, you're talking about Firefox? How is your mum getting this in Italy, I thought Firefox only enabled it in US? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/dns-over-https-doh-faqs#w_are-you-rolling-this-default-out-in-europe …

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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