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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
      • Report Tweet
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      Replying to @paulvixie @PowerDNS_Bert @bagder

      Heh, the benefits of DoH are so obvious, the arguments against it so weak, and the motivations of the opponents so transparent that the writing is on the wall. DoH is a certainty, does that tip the scale? 😂

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    2. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and

      Definitely not with you on this one Tavis. It fails my "mum" test as DoH has made browsing from home a nightmare for her. When I turned it off and went back to the ISP's it became a breeze again. DoH is the perfect example of an arrogant bunch assuming the world is their net.

      2 replies 3 retweets 11 likes
    3. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and

      To answer your deleted tweet: surfing had slowed to treacle. She is off borrowed WiFi on a minor Italian ISP. The ISP's DNS do an excellent job, DoH failed to resolve fast enough. Was convinced her laptop was the issue and about to fork out for a new one.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Daniel Stenberg‏Verified account @bagder 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and

      That sounds like a good old bug that you certainly can put the blame on DoH but they happen all the time in all ares. Another day using DoH could be the faster solution...

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @bagder @cynicalsecurity and

      Yep, DoH might add some small amount of latency, but it seems impossible it was responsible for what you were seeing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      So turning it off or using the native browser worked fine but it is not DoH?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Rebooting your computer sometimes fixes problems, it doesn't really reveal anything about the cause though, right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    8. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      no, but turning DoH back on slowed browsing to a treacle again… do it a few times and it starts being compelling evidence. Perhaps the ISP throttles TCP to CDNs, perhaps it has SSL MITM which breaks DoH. I don't know and I don't care 'cos my mum lives 4hrs away and I need a fix.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      Sure, It's possible the ISP was doing SSL MITM. I care about that, I don't want your mums email being inspected without permission. I guess if you don't care, then resolving this problem was an unwelcome chore, but just allow malicious ISPs shouldn't be the default right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bagder and

      Yes, right, let's pick the most unlikely reason… the reason, which I bothered to analyse, is that the ISP is small, does not peer at major peering points, is on a local IXP and is, fundamentally, only suitable for local traffic. DoH and the hundreds of DNS requests make it slow.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

      I was just repeating the reason you gave. Sure, disabling DoH might be the answer in some situations, but you agree we shouldn't *default* to plaintext protcols like http/telnet/dns, because in rare cases it's acceptable, right?

      2:22 PM - 31 Oct 2019
      • 3 Likes
      • Matt Denton n FIPSmode Squad
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Arrigo Triulzi‏ @cynicalsecurity 31 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @bagder and

          No, you are putting a data transfer protocol, a remote access protocol and a name resolution protocol in the same category. DoH is not securing DNS, it is sending all requests to the same location which, for privacy, is lethal.

          2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and

          Right, I listed a bunch of plaintext protocols together that have encrypted counterparts, telnet => ssh, http => https, dns => doh. Not sure what is wrong with that. It seems like a really ridiculous claim that DoH is worse for privacy than DNS, but interested to hear why.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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