fwiw, I have given up debating with Tavis for this reason - it is not an actual discussion that could lead to results.
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i try not to give up on anybody unless they seem purposeful (intellectually dishonest) rather than confused (self deception and ignorance). my jury is still out on tavis, though i admit i'm close to the point of ignoring him.
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Heh, the benefits of DoH are so obvious, the arguments against it so weak, and the motivations of the opponents so transparent that the writing is on the wall. DoH is a certainty, does that tip the scale?
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Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and
Definitely not with you on this one Tavis. It fails my "mum" test as DoH has made browsing from home a nightmare for her. When I turned it off and went back to the ISP's it became a breeze again. DoH is the perfect example of an arrogant bunch assuming the world is their net.
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Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and
To answer your deleted tweet: surfing had slowed to treacle. She is off borrowed WiFi on a minor Italian ISP. The ISP's DNS do an excellent job, DoH failed to resolve fast enough. Was convinced her laptop was the issue and about to fork out for a new one.
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Replying to @cynicalsecurity @taviso and
That sounds like a good old bug that you certainly can put the blame on DoH but they happen all the time in all ares. Another day using DoH could be the faster solution...
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Replying to @bagder @cynicalsecurity and
Yep, DoH might add some small amount of latency, but it seems impossible it was responsible for what you were seeing.
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So turning it off or using the native browser worked fine but it is not DoH?
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Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and
Rebooting your computer sometimes fixes problems, it doesn't really reveal anything about the cause though, right?
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no, but turning DoH back on slowed browsing to a treacle again… do it a few times and it starts being compelling evidence. Perhaps the ISP throttles TCP to CDNs, perhaps it has SSL MITM which breaks DoH. I don't know and I don't care 'cos my mum lives 4hrs away and I need a fix.
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Sure, It's possible the ISP was doing SSL MITM. I care about that, I don't want your mums email being inspected without permission. I guess if you don't care, then resolving this problem was an unwelcome chore, but just allow malicious ISPs shouldn't be the default right?
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Yes, right, let's pick the most unlikely reason… the reason, which I bothered to analyse, is that the ISP is small, does not peer at major peering points, is on a local IXP and is, fundamentally, only suitable for local traffic. DoH and the hundreds of DNS requests make it slow.
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Replying to @cynicalsecurity @bagder and
I was just repeating the reason you gave. Sure, disabling DoH might be the answer in some situations, but you agree we shouldn't *default* to plaintext protcols like http/telnet/dns, because in rare cases it's acceptable, right?
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