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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Gert Döring‏ @Cron2Gert 7 Oct 2019
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation
      Replying to @taviso @AkiTuomi @PowerDNS_Bert

      "Whether the ISPs get the queries" is not even my main complaint, it's "the browser is willfully bypassing system settings" and "over HTTP". DNS over TLS exists, quad-X resolvers (with DoT) exist. DoH is just silly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Cron2Gert @AkiTuomi @PowerDNS_Bert

      The problem is you are one of the lucky few who only use trustworthy networks. Many people do not have that luxury, like the customers of the ISPs in the article above. Is it your opinion that it just sucks to be them, and we should do nothing?

      5 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Paul Vixie‏ @paulvixie 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Cron2Gert and

      if you can't trust your upstream you need more protection than DoH pretends to give you.

      3 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    4. Ren‏ @ren_tragger 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @paulvixie @taviso and

      To be brazen and add to this, if your upstream is hijacking your DNS or blocking DoT, you have serious issues that DoH won't solve and it easily interferes with local net DNS (which I doubt is solvable without the ISP also taking advantage).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @ren_tragger @paulvixie and

      It solves a real problem that is happening to real users today. The fact that we have more problems to solve doesn't mean we shouldn't solve this one, right? We can solve these problems independently, nobody claims DoH solves everything.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Ren‏ @ren_tragger 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and

      So the plan is to break existing tech for everyone in exchange for solving a problem for a subset of people? Is it wrong that I believe we should have a do no harm policy? Who's problem is being fixed? It isn't my customers. This only complicates and/or breaks them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @ren_tragger @paulvixie and

      The plan is to break snooping without permission, yes. If that is something you currently do, it will require some operational changes. I do not believe a "do no harm" policy applies to snoopers (??).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ren‏ @ren_tragger 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and

      Every time a customer calls unable to reach a website, can I give them your personal cell phone number? When their dynamic dns and other internal automated systems cease to work, can they call you? We don't snoop or even log queries. DoH is of negative value to them.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Ren‏ @ren_tragger 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and

      I'm guessing you haven't worked an ISP helpdesk. Correct me if I am wrong, please. Having someone as a customer doesn't give you permission to do anything. I think the browsers should mind their own business. Informed Opt-In is okay, but not uninformed consent or opt-out.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @ren_tragger @paulvixie and

      Ah-ha, I would say you need to get permission, sorry. If you don't get permission, there is no way to differentiate you from a bad actor. If you scroll up in this thread, you will see an example of what ISPs are doing.

      6:04 PM - 15 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ren‏ @ren_tragger 15 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @paulvixie and

          I know what others do. I'm wondering why people think my customers should be punished. I say the browser must explain in detail and get knowledgeable permission to use DoH or it is the bad actor, stealing DNS traffic from the unknowing customer.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @ren_tragger @paulvixie and

          You should get permission from your customers. I don't have anything else to add.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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