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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Aki Tuomi‏ @AkiTuomi 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      So you can only be against DoH or for it?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @AkiTuomi @PowerDNS_Bert

      The core point of contention is whether ISPs get the queries by default. The benefit of DoH is that we can control who gets to see them. I understand you're indifferent to DoH if the ISP still gets the queries. I'm sure you already understand this, I don't know why you asked?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Gert Döring‏ @Cron2Gert 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @AkiTuomi @PowerDNS_Bert

      "Whether the ISPs get the queries" is not even my main complaint, it's "the browser is willfully bypassing system settings" and "over HTTP". DNS over TLS exists, quad-X resolvers (with DoT) exist. DoH is just silly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 7 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Cron2Gert @AkiTuomi @PowerDNS_Bert

      The problem is you are one of the lucky few who only use trustworthy networks. Many people do not have that luxury, like the customers of the ISPs in the article above. Is it your opinion that it just sucks to be them, and we should do nothing?

      5 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Alzimon‏ @Alzimon 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Cron2Gert and

      So denying people control over DNS and whisking off queries to a jurisdiction with weaker privacy legislation is beneficial if their network is untrustworthy? I see.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Alzimon @Cron2Gert and

      Yes, if your network is untrustworthy "whisking off" the queries to a trustworthy network seems like a good idea to me. Nobody is denying anyone control, what are you basing that on?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Alzimon‏ @Alzimon 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Cron2Gert and

      For one thing, as I understand it, centralised DoH will let browsers and appliances circumvent my own (and any state-mandated) DNS-based blocklists. Furthermore, what I consider trustworthy is for me to decide. Information Ssecurity is about control.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @Alzimon @Cron2Gert and

      Absolutely not, this is just about choosing safe defaults. Nobody is suggesting you shouldn't be allowed to choose who is trustworthy. If you're lucky enough to only ever use trustworthy networks, great! Many people are not that lucky, and we should help them, right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Alzimon and

      As long as you define yourself as trustworthy, this is fine advice. Or in the words of a wise former coworker of yours: “I trust me; why shouldn’t everyone else trust me too?”

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Floor‏ @floorter 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert @taviso and

      It's fascinating to me how much the European (my overgeneralisation) perspective differs from others. In my experience our legal privacy framework is much stronger and enforcement towards ISP's is effective. I trust my ISP more than most companies outside the EU.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 8 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @floorter @PowerDNS_Bert and

      Sure, but we shouldn't abandon the people who aren't as lucky as you. I don't think it's unreasonable to pick a good default if it protects millions of less fortunate people.

      8:23 AM - 8 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Floor‏ @floorter 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert and

          I could argue that for about half a bilion people it's not a good default. However I am sympathetic for the argument that enabling DoH by default will increase adoption of the protocol, which I see as a good thing.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 8 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @floorter @PowerDNS_Bert and

          I disagree, this isn't just about ISPs, connecting to a "Free Wifi" SSID should be safe and isn't. I am European, you can't tell me snooping is an American problem. 🤣

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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