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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. MalwareTech‏Verified account @MalwareTechBlog 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @SwiftOnSecurity and

      You don't though. You can just disable it at group policy level. It's not like the OS is suddenly forcing all queries over DoH, it's a browser feature. Malware has to implement it, and if they wanted to, they could implement one of the many alternatives.

      3 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    2. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @MalwareTechBlog @Ma_15702265146 and

      Yes, if you break SSL you can also then monitor for DNS over TLS with unauthorised servers and use that as an alert for malware and misuse.

      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
    3. ṆO͕͖ ̤SC̣O̦̤̗̘͈͕O̙̺̭̫̯T̬̥̭͉̥͙͔E͉͈̗̲RS͖̺™͓‏ @no_scooters 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @Ma_15702265146 and

      like how it is already done in large scale enterprise, correct?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @no_scooters @Ma_15702265146 and

      I’m not aware of any products which yet support DNS over TLS monitoring, so I doubt it’s done at scale (there’s Palo Alto, but that’s just blocking at this stage). It will emerge tho.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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    6. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @JaxxAI @no_scooters and

      Aye that provides blocking, not monitoring and logging tho. Malware is only a small part of the security landscape, you see phishing etc using DNS. It’s not a big deal tho as security solutions will adapt, it’s similar with the mass move to SSL years back.

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @no_scooters and

      Would you agree that the strong push for SSL, while inconvenient for network monitoring, was a good thing? I get the pushback because it will require changes, but it is very clearly the right direction 🤷🏻‍♂️

      3 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
    8. Kevin Beaumont‏Verified account @GossiTheDog 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @no_scooters and

      It’s a good thing for consumers. For enterprises it raised the bar of security technical requirements, kinda feeds into security poverty for orgs that can’t invest in tooling.

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @GossiTheDog @no_scooters and

      I don't follow, it absolutely must be possible for Administrators to disable DoH via group policy, I don't think anybody claims otherwise? If you're Administrator, it's your endpoint and you can disable all privacy controls if you wish.

      7 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    10. Joshua Gregory‏ @NEXUS2345 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @GossiTheDog and

      Yes, you can disable DoH in Chrome, Firefox and other legitimate applications by using Group Policy, but there is also the aspect of malicious applications or poorly coded applications that don't provide that facility or don't respect it for malicious reasons.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @NEXUS2345 @GossiTheDog and

      Correct, a malicious endpoint can tunnel queries out of a network using any permitted protocol if it desires. The existence or non-existence of DoH doesn't change that.

      2:54 PM - 6 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Joshua Gregory‏ @NEXUS2345 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @GossiTheDog and

          The existence of DoH is a vector that allows a malicious actor to hide their traffic within that of normal web traffic. Unless an organisation has full TLS interception, which is expensive financially and technically, they won't be able to detect that traffic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joshua Gregory‏ @NEXUS2345 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @NEXUS2345 @taviso and

          There are many other vectors an attacker can use, but very few of them allow an attacker to blend in to normal traffic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 3 more replies

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