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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

Tweets

Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Natalie Silvanovich‏ @natashenka 4 Oct 2019
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      Also saddened that Signal has this large remote attack surface due to limitations in WebRTC. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1936 …

      3 replies 87 retweets 259 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 4 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @natashenka

      I find it confusing that they'll consider every crypto decision and trade-off so carefully, but not worry too much about attack surface. I mean, what use is world class crypto if an attacker can just pop a shell and grab the keys? 🤷🏻‍♂️

      3 replies 9 retweets 79 likes
    3. Moxie Marlinspike‏Verified account @moxie 4 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @natashenka

      We haven't had much luck with considerations like this from the webrtc team over there. If this is something you're concerned about, could you help bring it up with your co-workers who maintain webrtc? Every consumer of webrtc is in the same boat.

      9 replies 7 retweets 77 likes
    4. Philipp Hancke‏ @HCornflower 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @moxie @taviso @natashenka

      You traded call setup time for security. AFAICT there is no issue unless you call setLocalDescription. Also @juberti is quite responsive

      3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    5. Nils Ohlmeier‏ @nilsohlmeier 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @HCornflower @moxie and

      I think the real answer should be to get the RTP stack of http://webrtc.org  trustworthy and secure enough so you can trust it any time. Waiting for user interaction is not making things more secure.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @nilsohlmeier @HCornflower and

      The answer should be "just make all software trustworthy and secure", but we just don't know how to do that yet. I think gating attacker access to *significant* attack surface behind user interaction is prudent.

      2 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    7. Moxie Marlinspike‏Verified account @moxie 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @nilsohlmeier and

      AFAIK this entire attack surface is ungated without user interaction for every Android user by default. Has Google done something to mitigate the risks you’re concerned about which we should also adopt in our app?

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 6 Oct 2019
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      Replying to @moxie @nilsohlmeier and

      I'm not criticizing you or representing Android, I'm just stating that reducing attack surface is a good thing. I think being able to disable webrtc in a security focussed app would be desirable, I don't see how that's an attack against you?

      12:40 PM - 6 Oct 2019
      • 1 Retweet
      • 7 Likes
      • Northern Light Firstyear Bruno Keith Markus Vervier CarrickDB Pascal Ernster 🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇱🇺 Leonardo Porpora
      2 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Moxie Marlinspike‏Verified account @moxie 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @nilsohlmeier and

          I would love to reduce the attack surface here however I can. Afaict, the same attack surface you’re concerned about in Signal is present at the OS/Play level for every Android user by default. I’m asking if you all did something to secure that which we can apply to Signal.

          3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Natalie Silvanovich‏ @natashenka 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @moxie @taviso and

          I don’t know much about Duo (though it’s next on my list now), but I don’t think it’s default-on for every Android user. Don’t people have to at least open the app once and sign in before other users can start RTP sessions with them?

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 3 more replies
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        2. Ben Higgins‏ @bnjmnhggns 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @moxie and

          I had to resort to an extension to prevent chrome from leaking my internal ip via webrtc. Wish I could’ve disabled that. I desire it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Justin Uberti‏ @juberti 6 Oct 2019
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          Replying to @bnjmnhggns @taviso and

          Off-topic, but we fixed this several weeks ago through a new mechanism for handling IP addresses. You shouldn't need the extension anymore.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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