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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @scriptjunkie1 @MalwareTechBlog @josephfcox

      I think that might be a false dichotomy 😛

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    2. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 14 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @scriptjunkie1 and

      I'm with @scriptjunkie1 . The false dichotomy is thinking Alice gets to choose between (a) reporting bugs to vendors full time or (b) selling bugs to responsible brokers. (a) doesn't pay a salary. So the choice is between (b) and not looking for bugs at all.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @scriptjunkie1 and

      You're just restating the same false dichotomy. Secondly, it's just plain wrong, it's absolutely possible to work in security research without having to sell exploits. There is no moral dilemma here.

      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
    4. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @scriptjunkie1 and

      Working in security? Absolutely. But 98% of people in security aren't looking for 0days. Neither for governments nor to report to vendors. And sadly, most security jobs have very little impact making it harder for bad actors to use exploits against highly targeted individuals

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @scriptjunkie1 and

      Sure, if you literally refuse to accept any job that isn't spending 100% of your time looking for 0day, the job market is smaller. There are still options, VRP and similar programs. If you want to do this successfully, you need to optimize your work differently.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @scriptjunkie1 and

      So if you're someone who wants to work in vuln research, and you don't get one of the few dozen jobs doing it for a company that reports the bugs immediately, what do you do? Bug bounties are getting better, but they don't pay the same.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @scriptjunkie1 and

      I disagree, you just have to optimize your work differently. Prefer volume over quality, not wasting time improving reliability when you could be finding more bugs, and so on. If it will take you a month to turn a bug into an exploit, calculate if the reward justifies that, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @tylerni7 and

      If it is one month worth of work to complete an exploit, and in one month you can make 20 baseline crash bugs, then maybe it isn't the optimal decision. Take advantage of the more lucrative programs, the chrome fuzzer reward program for example.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @scriptjunkie1 and

      ....or sell the bugs to brokers who sell to responsible parties and make more money. 20 crashes in Chrome is $40-$100k. Even without escaping the sandbox working RCE is more than that. If do that volume in 6mo-1year, one is comfortable, one is not

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @tylerni7 @scriptjunkie1 and

      Sure, if you can rationalize leaving a billion users vulnerable to anyone who does the same thing you did - potentially very unpleasant people - you might make slightly more money. No argument there.

      9:22 AM - 15 Aug 2019
      • 1 Retweet
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      • Paivoo Piez
      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. tylerni7‏ @tylerni7 15 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @scriptjunkie1 and

          As much as people like to shit on them, the US Gov also is able to save lives thanks to its offensive cyber programs. They aren't angels who do no wrong, but I think they do net positive. I also don't think bad folks use 0days against billions, only very targeted folks

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @tylerni7 @scriptjunkie1 and

          That is a dishonest tweet that misrepresents the argument. When you say "It's okay because only sell exploits to the good guys", the problem is you can't stop bad people finding and exploiting the same bug, and *that's* the problem.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        4. 13 more replies
        1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 15 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @tylerni7 and

          I would say that if you were willing to optimize your workflow for VRP, the income would be similar, however.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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