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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

Tweets

Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Adam 'pi3' Zabrocki‏ @Adam_pi3 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @grsecurity @depletionmode and

      Adam 'pi3' Zabrocki Retweeted David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives

      Sure, but at the same time as @depletionmode mentioned it can catch real-world attacks (which are not done by exploiters who can bypass it) https://twitter.com/depletionmode/status/1156824124288884736 … Anyway, I don't think we will ever end this discussion here :)

      Adam 'pi3' Zabrocki added,

      David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives @depletionmode
      Replying to @Adam_pi3 @grsecurity and 6 others
      In my view both sides of the argument have merit. However, in the 'real world' products like WDATP et al provide value. Proven fact in the campaigns they've interrupted. As with everything its a cost/benefit play. I think I'm seeing disagreement on the results of that function.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. grsecurity‏ @grsecurity 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Adam_pi3 @depletionmode and

      Sure, and as I mentioned, there are plenty of ways to do that (maybe you forgot I have ~14 years experience with Windows malware analysis/sandboxing etc ;)), but it's an easy thing to point to in hindsight, and something virtually any security product can claim.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Adam 'pi3' Zabrocki‏ @Adam_pi3 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @grsecurity @depletionmode and

      I did not :P Nevertheless, in the real world scenarios I saw cases where in a huge network they still use old 32-bit systems since they are running some shitty 16-bit legacy software (surprisingly it's not a rare case!). That type of products might be the only solution for them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives‏ @depletionmode 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Adam_pi3 @grsecurity and

      Iil don't think that investment in hard-mitigation-based tech and detection 'tricks' are mutually exclusive given the threat landscape today. Sure we all know the limitations of each but practically both have a place right now

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @depletionmode @Adam_pi3 and

      Nobody argues they're mutually exclusive. Just like homeopathy isn't mutually exclusive with antibiotics. They both have limitations, for example antibiotics can't reattach severed limbs, so it's fair to list them in the same class as homeopathy.... right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives‏ @depletionmode 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Adam_pi3 and

      The 'detection' side of our industry should pack it up because the past 20 years of mitigation progress has solved practical security. Again, working towards technically secure, trustworthy computing is the holy grail. No argument there. The current reality is pwn'd by Powershell

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @depletionmode @Adam_pi3 and

      Should the homeopaths pack it up because the past 20 years of western medicine haven't cured all disease? Umm, yes. 😆

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives‏ @depletionmode 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Adam_pi3 and

      I think we should stop looking for + reporting memory corruption bugs because we have Rust

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @depletionmode @Adam_pi3 and

      You keep trying to associate your blacklist with real security boundaries. I don't blame you, I would do the same, "Look, all medicine has limitations, we all agree on that. Antibiotics and homeopathy are not mutually exclusive, I'm just saying we can use both."

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @depletionmode and

      It's frustrating, because while I'm happy to discuss the problems with blacklisting, I don't want to keep explaining why it's not in the same class as ASLR, DEP and fixing vulnerabilities in security boundaries.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 1 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @depletionmode and

      Here is a question for you, I think the market value of a kernel memory corruption is quite high. Conversely, I think the market value of the name of a struct or whatever you can corrupt with an arbitrary r0 rw is zero, how do you explain that disparity?

      9:36 AM - 1 Aug 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives‏ @depletionmode 1 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @Adam_pi3 and

          Twitter not being the best medium for discussions, I don't want you to get frustrated further, so I'll try again for personal clarity: Mitigations and vulns in boundaries are one thing; detection technologies are something different entirely. I'm not trying to confuse the two.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. David Kaplan #StayHomeSaveLives‏ @depletionmode 1 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @depletionmode @taviso and

          I am also drawing no equivalence between opportunistic detection schemes and concrete security boundaries (although exactly where said boundaries lie - and whether attackers care is also something that can be discussed).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 15 more replies

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