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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      In general, it goes back to the choice of making things secure by making them simple and obviously correct, or making things appear secure by making stuff crazy complicated so nobody except silent attackers bother specializing enough in it enough to find the flaws.

      1 reply 13 retweets 39 likes
    2. halvarflake‏ @halvarflake 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      (Lots of opinion on very thin factual basis, as I am not a silent attacker paid to look at complicated stuff :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Ian Coldwater  📦 💥‏ @IanColdwater 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @halvarflake @taviso and

      I'm not particularly silent, but as someone who gets paid to attack complicated stuff, this can kind of work, at least until it doesn't

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Artem I. Baranov‏ @artem_i_baranov 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @IanColdwater @halvarflake and

      Me more interesting who are these attackers who use rootkit for token swap. Haven't seen it in any of Sednit, Wingbird, Finfisher, EquationDrug, GrayFish and others. It is an old stuff iirc. 🤔

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    5. daveaitel‏ @daveaitel 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @artem_i_baranov @IanColdwater and

      I think he means it finds exploits, not rootkits necessarily

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @daveaitel @artem_i_baranov and

      This debate happened at least 3x i know of (iOS KPP, Patchguard, LKRG) and people are split despite a shared view on limitations. I guess if you believe that we can simply prevent attackers from ever getting RW in kernel than you don't think this is worth the trade off

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @daveaitel and

      The problem is that for this to make a difference then attackers must already have r0 rw primitive. One of the things you can do with r0 rw is token swapping, but if you prevent that, people move on to the next thing. Did you make things better or worse?

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT and

      You added a lot of complexity, and all you got in return was you made attackers do an afternoon of work to write a new shellcode. I think the answer is you made things worse 🤷🏻‍♂️

      4 replies 5 retweets 17 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT and

      The argument is definitely not about thinking we can prevent kernel rw - It's about accepting that kernel rw is pretty bad and that there isn't an easy solution to that!

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @daveaitel and

      Dude i fully accept that. If your interested you should check any of my recent talks where i literally say the words "RW is really hard and we don't have tons of solid solutions" Your acting like i'm divorced from reality or something.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 31 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @daveaitel and

      Sorry, I was just responding to what you said, "if you believe that we can simply prevent attackers from ever getting RW in kernel than you don't think this is worth the trade off". I guess I don't know what you mean then, can you explain?

      3:48 PM - 31 Jul 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ryan Naraine‏Verified account @ryanaraine 31 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT and

          Guys, grab a beer in Vegas and shoot the breeze 😉

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 31 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @ryanaraine @taviso and

          Were more food court people

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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