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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      It was just an example, you didn't say that. I think you do believe that network admins must be able to view dns queries though, which is kinda like arguing for escrowed encryption.🤷‍♂️

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      Yes, if you run a network, I think you should be able to control what happens on your network. I would hate a world that is so locked down I have no visibility on what stuff is doing. Compare a Nest with a secret microphone in it. I'd love to monitor such a device in my house!

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      I think you're doing it again, hedging against an unpopular opinion. You just said your concern is caching, but now it's network monitoring. Is it fair to say you do not think end-users should be able to encrypt dns queries in such a way that network operators can't read them?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      Because most people would not call that being "pro dns encryption" 🤷‍♂️

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Stefan Schmidt‏ @Zap42 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      Err well, https://dnsdist.org/changelog.html#change-1.4.0-alpha2-New-Features … how is that . not "pro dns encryption"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Zap42 @PowerDNS_Bert

      That's like saying "Err, How is the clipper chip not evidence that the NSA is pro encryption?" 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Stefan Schmidt‏ @Zap42 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      So you're saying don't create DoH implementations because they implement DoH? Really? dnsdist (hopefully) does not provide a backdoor channel for the NSA. Run your own dnsdist is what Bert says. Your argument is invalid.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Zap42 @PowerDNS_Bert

      Umm, what? I'm saying that Bert argues for and promotes more network monitoring, I think he believes that your network administrator should be able to see every DNS query you make. You said he wrote some DoH code, therefore he cannot believe that - non sequitur.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Stefan Schmidt‏ @Zap42 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      So your issue is with dnsdist being a loadbalancer and Bert arguing that the operator of such a service should be in control of their own servers/services? Obviously DoH prevents network operators to look into DoH queries while they are in transit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Zap42 @PowerDNS_Bert

      No. The issue I have is that Bert describes his position as pro-encryption, but actually believes that network administrators should have full visibility into what end-users are querying. I think it's disingenuous to call that "pro-encryption".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @Zap42 @PowerDNS_Bert

      If the network admin of Starbucks Free-Wifi must be able to read all your queries, are you pro-encryption? I think most people would say no, and that is the argument. I'm not arguing for or against network monitoring, I'm just saying it's disingenuous to call that pro-encryption.

      9:51 AM - 2 Jul 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Stefan Schmidt‏ @Zap42 2 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

          I think Bert is saying operator as in both DNS operator and/or legal entity that is running the service and all you see is network operator. But whatever you keep slandering I won’t keep replying.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @Zap42 @PowerDNS_Bert

          No, if that was the case we would be in agreement. The issue is as I described it, Bert argues network admins need visibility into end-user DNS queries to (for example) monitor for malware. It sounds like you are surprised to learn his position on this? 😜

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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