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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      I'm trying to be difficult because I think you're being disingenuous saying you're not against DNS encryption, while actively pushing for more monitoring? OK 🤷‍♂️

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      I think you really do not get what I mean. You conflate how I'd like to control my own network (which is true) with that I am "pushing for more monitoring" by "proper authorities" & that I do not want end-users to have privacy. And despite my retorts, you keep believing that 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert @taviso

      But let me then ask you some questions. Do you advocate encrypting DNS for everyone & sending it straight to Google or Cloudflare, by default?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      You're right, I do keep believing that, because I don't see how you can argue for more network monitoring and more privacy from network monitoring at the same time. You phrased the question strangely, but yes I think encrypting everything by default is a good idea.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      And encrypt to just anyone? Or does it matter where the plaintext ends up? I asked you specifically: do you advocate sending DNS by default (over an encrypted connection) to Google and Cloudflare.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      Yes, DNS queries should be encrypted by default, the answer doesn't change based on who you're querying. Where is this going Bert?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      So are you advocating sending DNS by default to Google and Cloudflare specifically? It is not a very hard question. Much like a VPN only changes the endpoint of your data, the endpoint is very important. Hence the question.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      No, I don't advocate for Google and Cloudflare specifically. Just that the queries are encrypted.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      You'll have to pick something though - my argument is only about the default. I've done a lot of work promoting encrypted DNS & run an encrypted DNS service. Our only difference appears to be about the default. Which default do you argue for then if not Google and Cloudflare?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

      The difference is that you think network operators should be able to see end-user queries, and I don't think that's compatible with "I'm pro DNS encryption"? I have no idea how you got to "Cloudflare and Google" from that?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @PowerDNS_Bert

      I understand that you've implemented DNS encryption, but the NSA implemented and promoted Skipjack, a block cipher. The purpose of implementing it was not because they were pro-encryption, it would be disingenuous to claim otherwise, right?

      9:06 AM - 2 Jul 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Bert Hubert  🇪🇺‏ @PowerDNS_Bert 2 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @taviso

          Now that you keep mentioning the NSA, I asked specifically about whom you'd want to encrypt DNS *to*. It turns out every US company has a MAJOR vulnerability on that front - it must respond to FISA 702, which offers scant protection to non-US persons. So endpoint matters a lot!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 2 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @PowerDNS_Bert

          You are throwing a lot of chaff out here, which makes me think my observation that you're trying to hedge against an unpopular opinion was accurate. Let's stick to the point, I don't want to argue if monitoring is good or bad - just that its disingenuous to call it pro-encryption

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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