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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

      It is worth it if you will burn that good will by pushing for U2F in a situation where 2FA has already been in place and has proved sufficient for the current threat model, risk appetite and budget.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @TheVega @bengoerz and

      Yes, you don't need to reword your same argument dozens of different ways. You would burn all your budget to make attackers jump through a few hoops, I would rather save up for a real solution. I understand, I just disagree 😛

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

      But if I can cheaply implement even sms based 2FA and it stops just a handful of attackers while I work towards a full on U2F solution the answer is yes. Part of that good will is accurately conveying the risks and trade-offs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @TheVega @bengoerz and

      Perhaps homeopathy can be practiced safely if you accurately convey the risks and tradeoffs. The placebo effect is real, it might help a handful of people. Homeopathy is still trash though.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Ben Goerz‏ @bengoerz 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @TheVega and

      90% of Gmail users aren’t even practicing your homeopathy. Google Apps is THE platform for startups and SMBs. Let’s be practical. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/17/no_one_uses_two_factor_authentication/ …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Ben Goerz‏ @bengoerz 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @bengoerz @taviso and

      Sorry, not trying to pick on Google here. I have just seen that particular issue a LOT in my work with startups, SMBs, and EDUs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @bengoerz @TheVega and

      I have no idea what your argument is, it's obvious to everyone that 2FA and U2F are not widely deployed. I'm saying we should put the limited wood we do have behind the arrows that actually work, U2F.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ben Goerz‏ @bengoerz 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @TheVega and

      I'm saying that U2F is becoming the enemy of 2FA, when either is better than what 90% of orgs are actually doing. 2FA is a great solution for SMBs that *maybe* get a security review 1x per year because it can be rolled out same-day and is probably adequate given the risk profile.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @bengoerz @TheVega and

      I'm glad U2F is the enemy of 2FA, this argument doesn't sway me. Just saying "2FA is a great solution" isn't a good argument, you have to explain why it's so wonderful, because all I see is a non-solution that is destroying the limited goodwill we have with users.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ben Goerz‏ @bengoerz 14 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @TheVega and

      I acknowledge your point about limited goodwill, and 2FA is absolutely not secure enough for some orgs. But I think 2FA is our best chance to convert the 90% of orgs that are on 1FA, and can be a stepping-stone (especially for training users) on the path to U2F. Crawl-walk-run.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @bengoerz @TheVega and

      Do you remember the old idea of "security images"? Users were prompted to select an image that they would see when they login, proving the site was authentic. Here is an article about it: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/banks-find-online-security-images-offer-little-protection-2015-11-05 …. It was easy to implement, so lots of banks did, but it's trash.

      7:38 AM - 14 Jan 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

          The same thing will happen to 2FA, it will get wide enough adoption until it's worth supporting in phishing kits (e.g. see https://github.com/drk1wi/Modlishka …) and then we'll have to move on to the next trash idea. U2F is a real solution, it's not a fad, it solves phishing.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 14 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

          We can keep asking people to implement the next cheap stepping stone and then say "oops, never mind, next trash thing is four factor security sounds", or we can say "This is a little harder to implement but the problem will be solved". Is it really so crazy to argue for that?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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