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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

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    1. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

      And what if an attack that could have been stopped by a basic 2FA implementation succeeds and costs you? Or doesn’t immediately cost you, but the reputational impact of the breach impacts revenue? You may be okay with that. Not everyone will be, or can be.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @TheVega @bengoerz and

      Please stop trying to turn this into a "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good" debate. That is not the issue. What about all the illnesses that could have been stopped by homeopathy? Not everyone will be okay with that Chris, get out of your ivory tower.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @TheVega and

      Notice how it doesn't make any sense, because homeopathy doesn't cure any illnesses? That's intentional, think about it 😜

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @bengoerz and

      But your entire point here is that 2FA “does nothing”, which is categorically false. The argument is absolutely making perfect the enemy of good. 2FA is not a perfect solution but it succeeds in numerous scenarios right now.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @TheVega @bengoerz and

      No, it is not "categorically false", that is just your opinion and I disagree. Let's just leave it here, we're just going in circles. 🙂

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Danny‏ @DSonBlue 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @TheVega and

      Tavis, this is a popular experience for InfoSec pros in orgs where something is better than nothing. But you appear (maybe wrongly) to be denying this. I know what your argument is but it isn’t bein played out in the same universe as the majority of us. Surely you get this?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @DSonBlue @TheVega and

      Frankly, "Surely you get this?" Doesn't read like you want a good faith discussion. Nevertheless, I will repeat (again again) that the issue here is that we do not have unlimited goodwill to burn, and cannot continually ask users to adopt new solutions to the same problems.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @DSonBlue and

      If it did, we could just cause temporary lull after lull with more nonsense schemes and that would be good enough. We can't. U2F is a real solution to phishing, it actually works and isn't just temporary busy work for attackers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @DSonBlue and

      Remember "security phrases"? It "solved" phishing by making users type in a phrase or image to prove it was the real site. It was trash, just like 2FA, but attackers had to change scripts and maybe Chris will argue was a deterrent, I don't know. Do you think this is sustainable?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @DSonBlue and

      Since I hath been summoned; you’ll always find yourself wanting to argue for implementing whatever the current best is, but the best solution may not be the right solution for that problem, at that time. Arguing against doing what you can in favor of doing what you should is bad

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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      Replying to @TheVega @DSonBlue and

      If all you can do is homeopathy, should you do it?

      4:13 PM - 13 Jan 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Christopher Vega  🍐‏ @TheVega 13 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @taviso @DSonBlue and

          And again, that only holds up if everyone agrees 2FA does absolutely no good, in all situations, for all use cases. That is not the case though. In a bubble, when your attacker is just shy of omnipotent by all means 2FA is junk. But not every attacker is omnipotent.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 13 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @TheVega @DSonBlue and

          I didn't ask you if it's the same, I asked if all you can do is homeopathy, should you do it? The debate is *not* something is better than nothing, it's that 2FA is about as effective as homeopathy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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