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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Stefan Esser‏Verified account @i0n1c 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @k8em0 @thegrugq

      The concept is flawed. It misunderstands that developers of open source projects already have incentives to work on the project. While security researchers usually have no incentive to look into an open source project.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @i0n1c @k8em0 @thegrugq

      Speak for yourself, yo

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Stefan Esser‏Verified account @i0n1c 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @k8em0 @thegrugq

      No i speak of reality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @i0n1c @k8em0 @thegrugq

      There are other realities. The retainer model isn’t awful. It’s a support contract, for support. Being on call is work even if you don’t do anything because you have set up the intrusive structure in case work is necessary. Less money, but guaranteed. That trade is common.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @i0n1c and

      I don't follow how that answers Stefan's point, are you proposing a retainer for researchers *and* maintainers?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @i0n1c and

      I’ve always supported full time research into open source security vulnerabilities. Project Zero is not wrong and I’m glad Google pays for it. Bounties work better than expected but are not going to be less stressful for volunteer labor. The job is support. There’s budget.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @taviso and

      Security research can be done on spec. But being on call is different. You’re impacted whether or not a bug is found. I’m ok with a retainer. The other guy is getting paid, after all.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @taviso and

      “Which one person should get paid for many people’s valuable contributions” is a bit odd. Fund what society needs. Blood to each finger, not just one or two.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @i0n1c and

      I'm not sure I follow the on-call point, but of course maintenance and security work are both valuable. I think Stefan's point was that a project might want to (or need to) incentivize security, but already has maintainers who benefit indirectly or in non-financial ways.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @i0n1c and

      I like more support. I like more security research. I like more funding. I don’t like implying some group is already paid enough. In security, even when people are paid well (which isn’t always), there’s not enough people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 29 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @dakami @i0n1c and

      Ah-ha, I think I understand what you're saying. It's a nice thought, but I suppose the counterargument is that it's a long way off and *right now* the incentives need to be enough to make the work actually happen 🤷‍♂️

      7:41 AM - 29 Dec 2018
      • 4 Likes
      • hajihill fennecfox0x01 Alyssa Feola Erka Koivunen
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami 29 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @i0n1c and

          People like myself, @k8em0, and even you speaking up are *how* things change from a long way off to yes, of course, let’s do that too. It’s ok. We can talk about things getting better beyond point solutions like writing a check and expecting problems to fix themselves.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 29 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @dakami @i0n1c and

          Sure, fair enough.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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