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taviso's profile
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Tavis Ormandy
Verified account
@taviso

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Tavis OrmandyVerified account

@taviso

Vulnerability researcher at Google. This is a personal stream, opinions expressed are mine.

California
taviso.decsystem.org
Joined April 2008

Tweets

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    1. Seanie B.‏ @seanieb 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @taviso

      It’s based on data. Dropbox and Patreon. AFIK FB have reported the same. Pretty sure there is public data that supports this too. I’ve been out of the game since April, so I do admit my data is older.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @seanieb @tqbf

      I think that's misinterpreting the data. It's a question of economics, it's not currently worth supporting 2FA users because it would only increase the victim yield 1% (or whatever small number) for significant process change, if you were to roll out universally however...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @taviso @seanieb

      It’s like the thing about house alarms. When you’re the only house on the block without one, yeah, it matters. But once every house has them, they stop mattering at all. We have clients that are serious fraud targets, and SMS is just a speed bump.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Seanie B.‏ @seanieb 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @taviso

      I think you’re both not accounting for the differences between phishing and stuffing. The vast majority of stuffing passwords Ive seen come from DB dumps. The attacker never engages with the victim.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @seanieb @taviso

      The SMS phishing I’ve seeing is done in conjunction with credential stuffing so I don’t see the distinction you’re trying to make.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Billy Ray Valentine‏ @spongeclipper 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @seanieb @taviso

      Explain? Credential stuffing usually refers to attacking reused credentials from data breaches. Where does phishing enter in?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @spongeclipper @seanieb @taviso

      Mandatory SMS 2FA across user base. Phase 1: credential-stuff the password. Phase 2: send automated request for SMS code to victim.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Billy Ray Valentine‏ @spongeclipper 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @seanieb @taviso

      Ah. I believe it (and I’ve seen some similar phishing), but I do think this attack is menacing fully harder than straight up credential stuffing. For example, your scenario seems to require an out of band (e.g. sms) contact for the victim, which may be missing in big dumps.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Billy Ray Valentine‏ @spongeclipper 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @spongeclipper @tqbf and

      Not trying to get too far into this argument because OTP is clearly suboptimal, but there are attacks where it meaningfully helps beyond just the economic point, I think. Is it worth deploying? Dunno.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Thomas H. Ptacek‏ @tqbf 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @spongeclipper @seanieb @taviso

      I’m not as religious as Tavis is on this and generally like TOTP, but SMS is a tire fire and needs to go away.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @tqbf @spongeclipper @seanieb

      So long as you don't argue it solves phishing, we're still cool 😛

      5:48 PM - 19 Dec 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 5 Likes
      • Artur Janc Eric Lawrence 🎻 Deirdre Connolly¹ Silence Dogood chort ↙️↙️↙️ Abolish ICE Stephen Checkoway
      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Josh Bressers‏ @joshbressers 19 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @taviso @tqbf and

          Those secret questions will save us from phishing!!!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Billy Ray Valentine‏ @spongeclipper 19 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @joshbressers @taviso and

          As long as there are three of them, and one is “what’s your favorite candy bar.”

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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